Boating up the St Lawrence - currents/horsepower required?

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by lmmcan

You might check the air draft for the Ottawa River and Rideau Canal if you are considering that route.

Its a beautiful trip though.

Rideau canal would require mast down. And would add weeks to an otherwise easy 3 day trip up the St Lawrence.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by MartinF

Are you familiar with the weather and the sailing season in this area? (I am in Ottawa). Everyone hauls their boat in October and rigs a tent to deflect the snow. In November it starts to snow. Ice in protected areas builds to about a foot thick, and melts in April. Boats are relaunched in early May. Hence Gaia's comment about looking for storage. So you may want to ensure that your boat reaches Montreal between May and August.
Good Luck,
M

Ottawa has terrible weather. Long stretches of bitter cold and massive snow accumulation. Kingston weather is much better...it's moderated by the waters of Lake Ontario, and generally has milder winters, less snow accumulation, and nicer summers with cool lake breezes. You chose well in selecting Kingston as your sailing base.

Here's a link to Kingston's newly renovated pier, suitable for swimming in summer. You can see the lake in the background, and get a feel for the wind and sea state. That's Wolfe Island in the background.

https://www.cityofkingston.ca/reside...akwater/webcam

The KYC runs a weather station, so you can see what the actual wind and temps are, live. Kingston has lots of wind...bring your small sails:

https://kingstonyachtclub.com/index.cfm?PageURL=weather

And here's the local marine weather from environment Canada:

https://weather.gc.ca/marine/forecas...1&siteID=08203

Collins Bay has excellent service. They have their own crane. Suburban, park setting.

Kingston Marina also has their own (massive) crane. But their reasonable prices put them in high demand. Last time I wanted to winter there I was told they were full up...but that was 4 years ago. Downtown, industrial setting.

Most clubs around here rent a crane for haul and launch, which is very limiting for dates and capacity.

I've seen a massive cat at POH, but they may have arranged their own haul.

POH and Confed have raised their rates so much in recent years that they have plenty of available dock space. But they offer very few services.

[Phonse]

I did the trip this past summer - and tried in 2017 - that year had crazy current. I have a 30' sailboat with a 15hp diesel. I make 6.5kts in flat water.

Le Port de Valleyfield is right on the St Lawrence Seaway. The current runs a manageable 2 kts. I believe that you will have a couple lift bridges to wait out, then into Lac St-Francois. If you turn right, you go into Valleyfield, with a very agreeable marina and a decent anchorage across.

Lac St-Francis is maybe 5 miles across and 10 miles long. It's easiest to follow the channel, which takes you to the south side of the lake. Both times, I picked up a lot of weed on my prop, requiring reversing several times. I'm guessing this is chopped up by passing ships. You have to watch carefully forward and astern. You are sharing the channel with ocean going ships doing up more than 15 kts.
Towards the end of the lake, but on the north side, is Creg Quay Marina - pretty good place to stop if you are running out of light.

At the west end of the lake you will enter a narrowish channel that takes you to Cornwall Ontario. The current starts to climb. There is a nice Marina on the east side of Cornwall - and you should take stock of the time. If you press on, you will hit currents approaching 4 kts all the way to the US locks. You should buy your transit passes ahead of time on-line. After Snell and Eisenhower locks, it is a long haul to yacht clubs and marinas near Long Sault on the Canadian side. Don't plan on staying on the American side unless you want to clear customs, which I expect is a hassle.

At boat speed of 5kts, it will take you about 8 hours with the current to get to the Iroquois lock, with a municipal Marina below the lock and Iroquois Marine Services above the lock, up a channel.
From the lock, it's another 8 hours to Brockville. You're in the beginning of the 1000 Islands and 8 hours to Gananoque. Another half day to Kingston.
It's really a nice trip, especially if you get wind from anywhere but west- which is the prevailing direction.

[hamburking]

Your engine power is more than sufficient for the trip up river from Montreal to Kingston. If you push, you could do the trip in 3 or 4 days. Better to relax, enjoy the trip, and take your time. The 7 locks will slow you down. They are large locks, for ships. Generally they send the pleasure craft together in group.

The locks finish at Iroquois.

Although quite scenic, the river is a wide, rather dull, channel until you get to Brockville. Here the river starts to widen, with more islands. At Grenedier island you can take the small craft route to the north, getting away from the big ship channel which follows the american side. Here the beauty of the thousand islands begins to unfold.

Brockville to Kingston can easily be done in one day.

If you do the trip in May, it will be cold. There may be strong SW winds, but the enclosed waters will keep the waves small.

As you might of guessed, I'm a local sailor in Kingston. If you have more questions, you are welcome to message me directly. As others have said, the sailing here is fantastic. The only downside is....winter. We can only really sail for 4 months a year. And if you would like some crew, I would be happy to join you on your trip up the river.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by stibbles

Newby to the forum here. We are hoping to move next year to Kingston, Ontario from the UK (very excited!). I am hoping to bring with me my boat, which is a small cruising cat.

Having neither the skill or time (and possible not the courage either) to sail across the Atlantic, I'm looking at 7-Star Yacht Transport, which would take our boat as far as Montreal (Salaberry-de-Valleyfield).

I would be extremely grateful for opinions as to whether we have the grunt to cover the last stretch under the boat's power as I've read about some fierce currents. Montreal looks lovely, but I don't want my boat to be stuck there.

Our 28' catamaran has 2 x 20hp inboard diesels. I think she'll go 7 knots at about 3000rpm (both engines), but more comfortably at 5.5-6 knots at 2300-2500rpm.

Would anyone be so kind as to give me their opinion (taken only as opinion, of course) as to whether I will be able to make sufficient headway?

Many thanks in anticipation.

There is a narrows above Quebec City where we experienced 7.5 knots current for about 3/4 of a mile in the main channel through a double dog-leg. I suspect your cat draws much less than our monohull. You should be able to seek the slower current along the sides. Make sure you have current navionics for your plotter. There are paper chart books you can find on line (Amazon). We also had Navionics loaded on an IPAD that was quite good. Beware of the large, expensive Canada Hydrgraphic charts. We found some screeching errors in some places. For the locks system, get all of your tickets on line before you begin. This will save money and speed your transit. Go to Zulu Waterways https://www.zuluwaterways.com/map And join. I have contributed many notes along the seaway you might find interesting and useful.

Do you plan to voyage the Great Lakes? Send me a PM if I can help. We left Muskegon Michigan three years ago taking the seaway to Nova Scotia. There are several fine cruising guides you might consider as well as the chart books. You won’t need the latest editions. Save some coin on all of this.

Mark and Lynn on SV ROXY
Currently on the hard in Chaguaramos, Trinidad, West Indies

Oops-reading over your OP I see you will begin above Quebec. You should have no crazy high current to deal with. Watch the cross currents that can push you into a navigational can.

[roverhi]

There seems to be a big fallacy in horse power and current. A displacement hulls speed through the water is basically limited by its waterline length. Doesn't matter whether there is a current or not. If your boat will do 6k through the water in still conditions, it will do 6k through the water in a 10k current. Of course you'll be going backwards at 4k in that situation but adding hp isn't going to get you much a bigger fuel bill. If you want to go faster to fight a strong current you'll need a bigger boat and the hp to drive it to hull speed.

Yes, if added horses allow the boat to plane it will go significantly faster but you aren't going to be able to add enough engine to a displacement hull to do that. Added hp's benefit is fighting wind and waves not current unless your boat is grossly underpowered and won't get near hull speed in flat conditions.

[seabreez]

Originally Posted by stibbles

Newby to the forum here. We are hoping to move next year to Kingston, Ontario from the UK (very excited!). I am hoping to bring with me my boat, which is a small cruising cat.

Our 28' catamaran has 2 x 20hp inboard diesels. I think she'll go 7 knots at about 3000rpm (both engines), but more comfortably at 5.5-6 knots at 2300-2500rpm.

Would anyone be so kind as to give me their opinion (taken only as opinion, of course) as to whether I will be able to make sufficient headway?

Many thanks in anticipation.

You have more than adequate power for the trip up the St Lawrence from Montreal or Valleyfield. Yes you will have a few areas where you will have more current than others. We live in those areas and the current will vary at the most 5,5 to 6.0 knots. The highest current will be at under the US bridge just east of Snell Locks. Keep my contact and reach me when you get close... good luck on you new trip... enjoy.

[stibbles]

I am learning that the later I leave the trip in my window, the more pleasant I am likely to find it. Consensus seems to be that we have enough power to displace us up the water (certainly no planing!).

Really overwhelmed to have elicited all this advice, offers of help and even crew. I had wondered whether to put this post on the specialist forum or one of the larger, general forums, but I am very glad I put it here.

The week I visited Kingston for my job interview it was the end of July, so perhaps I have already seen the Montréal Navy? I don't underestimate the additional difficulty finding a birth for catamaran, even a fairly small one like ours, but perhaps if I have seen the state of the marina's at their fullest or thereabouts, it is no bad thing I haven't got the wrong impression.

Thanks for the advice about shore power. Collins Bay Marina asked us if we were 15 V or 30 V. I must admit I had to look on our boat and was a bit perplexed to find it 16 V!

Yes, I have research to do about crossing over to the US side and that definitely looks a sizeable subject on its own. I think that until we have been in Canada for a year and have permanent resident status, hopefully, that a Nexus card is out of the question.

Looking forward to the adventure. Also have to sail her from Lincolnshire, UK to Antwerp, Belgium, to get on the transport, so is going to be a fun year ahead. Hope to see some of you on N American waters.

Best wishes

[Mirage35]

Actually they asked you if you need 15 or 30 Amp service - shore power in North America is all 120 V.

[PassePort III]

Hi.
Salaberry-de-Valleyfield is about 35 miles upstream from Montreal, plus 3 locks, so you don't have to worry about the current.

[stibbles]

Ah yes 16amps it is, of course. And thanks if you had anything to do with fielding the enquiry at the Kingston end

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by hamburking

The Rideau canal connects Kingston to Ottawa (not Montreal). Bad idea.

New York to Kingston via the Hudson river would add 2 weeks to a 3 day trip. Another bad idea.

Depends on your goals. If it's purely get the boat to the destination as fast as possible...true.

If you want to use it as an opportunity for an adventure...they are great options.

[wrapper]

We've done Montreal to Tadoussac on a 33 foot 22 HP monohull no problem

https://bellumdownriver2016.blogspot.com/

After Montreal, there is current approaching the locks at Cornwall. But we do that regularly with 8-10 HP 27 foot boats.

Absolutely beautiful. Drop in when in Montreal!

[Michel Sacco]

Hi UK boater,
You don't have to worry to navigate up the St.Lawrence River. Once in Montreal, you will go through the St. Lawrence Seaway up to lac Saint-François. From there, three other locks on your route upstream.
It's a slow ride with a boat like yours, but nothing problematic. 1 knot to 1,5 knot of stream current against you, sometimes less.
You will enjoy the 1000 islands archipelago before arriving in Kingston, provided you don't go on Summer week-ends.
Bonne chance

[yahtzee]

I agree with the peeps who said to forget going by Ottawa. There are too many bridges, so mast down and I do believe that at the Carillon Generating Station (on the Ottawa River between Montreal and Ottawa) doesn’t have a canal for pleasure boats. You’d need to make arrangements to have your boat trucked ($s) over land for the few kilometers to by-pass the power station. And with your beam, you’ll probably be looking at a police escort (more $s).

Having said that, when you get to the American locks, pay with your Canadian dollars (if you have them) because they take Canadian money at par.

Also, I am told that if you plan your travel time to get to the Iroquois locks at night (i.e. 11 pm to 4 am) you can motor right thru without needing to deal with the lock master and staff. The drop is a negligable 8” (not feet) and apparently the lock doors are left open for overnight freighters.

Welcome to Canada.

P.S. Get paper charts - required by law, but I don't know if they need to be the most up-to-date version. If you can get your hands on used ones and then update them thru NotMar.gc.ca, you'll be fine.