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23-10-2016, 02:31
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Boat: TBA
Posts: 338
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Brokers Fees
I have recently looked at several boats in a few different countries and ran across the brokers(not all ) insisting that if a deal was done, i as a purchaser will pay 50% of the brokers commission is this normal?
I have sold boats before and i had to pay the brokers on the final sale price the full commission.
I had not heard of this before but a couple of brokers told me up front that these were the rules in their country for this type of sale, all boats were listed on yacht world with no indication that this was the case, can any of you elaborate on this?
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23-10-2016, 03:57
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Sydney, Australia
Boat: Lightwave 38' Catamaran - now sold
Posts: 557
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Re: Brokers Fees
Certainly not in Australia!!
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24-10-2016, 06:05
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,009
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Re: Brokers Fees
Curious what countries. This is not the normal way of doing it in the United States. Here the seller would ordinarily have the full amount of the brokers commission taken out of their proceeds, and that would be split between the two brokers, if there was a buyers broker involved.
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24-10-2016, 06:18
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#4
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,103
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Re: Brokers Fees
Quote:
Originally Posted by aclmck
I have recently looked at several boats in a few different countries and ran across the brokers(not all ) insisting that if a deal was done, i as a purchaser will pay 50% of the brokers commission is this normal?
I have sold boats before and i had to pay the brokers on the final sale price the full commission.
I had not heard of this before but a couple of brokers told me up front that these were the rules in their country for this type of sale, all boats were listed on yacht world with no indication that this was the case, can any of you elaborate on this?
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In order to help others,
Which countries?
Which brokers?
Post a link to any online statements about the commission.
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24-10-2016, 06:31
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#5
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
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Re: Brokers Fees
In actuality as a purchaser, your paying 100% of the fee.
But it sounds like someone is trying to scam you if they are trying to say you pay them in addition to what your paying for the boat
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24-10-2016, 07:10
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Spain
Posts: 6
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Re: Brokers Fees
Without Knowing the country or broker concerned it would be hard to comment but in my experience its always the buyer that pays to sell his vessel si sounds like a bit of a scam to me.
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24-10-2016, 19:43
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Boat: TBA
Posts: 338
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Re: Brokers Fees
One was from Turkey, it was that i would pay 50% of his commission and the seller pay the other half, the other was for a boat in Montenegro(so i didn't even look at the boat) but I'm not sure where the broker was based.
But they were both up front so i could at least deduct this amount from the price before i made an offer , just never heard of it before and was curious as to if this was a practice in some countries. (i don't think they were trying to scam me only make me aware of the selling procedures in the relative deals, perhaps the seller would have paid them the full commission as well though) so yes then it would have been a scam but i doubt the seller would ever been aware of it in most cases.
I also thought it was odd and never said anything to the first salesman but questioned a little the second one but with langue barriers i never really understood the reasoning behind it.
it is interesting that some of the brokers were completely up front and answered everything with good responses other you could straight away feel that all was not as it should be and a close inspection of the boats would reveal why.
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27-10-2016, 03:48
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Boat: TBA
Posts: 338
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Re: Brokers Fees
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand
In order to help others,
Which countries?
Which brokers?
Post a link to any online statements about the commission.
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I'm not good on posting links but if you look at Yachtworld and look at Lagoon 400 adds, there are a few in the listings one is from Italy the broker is wave 1
He is not trying to hide the fact that the commission has to be paid here in that add he has it highlighted, i think this is the one i spoke to but unsure.
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27-10-2016, 04:36
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Malaysia, Thailand
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 430
Posts: 860
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Re: Brokers Fees
I recall something similar regarding a boat for sale in Italy. Might be a local procedure but I certainly did not appreciate it. If I'm forced to pay a broker I expect I get unprejudiced representation. That would NOT be the case with a broker trying to sell a boat to me, as for all intents and purposes she/he has the seller's best interest and the push to get the sale done as a priority. Thus I concluded I did not want to waste my time with such arrangements. Maybe I did not see some useful hidden benefit in there but sounded too much like bs to me and I looked elsewhere.
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27-10-2016, 05:15
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Boat: Catalina 470
Posts: 4,578
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Re: Brokers Fees
That seems ridiculous, the broker works for the seller not the buyer. In my experience this is not normal. How many enquiries does the seller lose when the man selling the boat for him tells potential buyer he will be paying a buying fee!!!
And my experience with brokers of recent times suggests that many don't earn their fees at all. I contacted a broker recently explaining I would be listing my boat within two weeks, the buyer of my boat contacted the same broker and explained the size and price range he wanted to buy in, the agent didnt talk to either of us, my boat was 100m from his office. Fortunately circumstances enabled us to meet and we were able to sell/buy privately.
Also have contacted several in the last two weeks explaining I am in a cash position and ready to buy the right boat at the right price, the amount of effort exerted by these brokers to date is zero.
Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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27-10-2016, 08:57
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: South Haven, MI
Boat: 2010 Andrews 28
Posts: 494
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Re: Brokers Fees
Quote:
Originally Posted by daletournier
That seems ridiculous, the broker works for the seller not the buyer. In my experience this is not normal. How many enquiries does the seller lose when the man selling the boat for him tells potential buyer he will be paying a buying fee!!!
And my experience with brokers of recent times suggests that many don't earn their fees at all. I contacted a broker recently explaining I would be listing my boat within two weeks, the buyer of my boat contacted the same broker and explained the size and price range he wanted to buy in, the agent didnt talk to either of us, my boat was 100m from his office. Fortunately circumstances enabled us to meet and we were able to sell/buy privately.
Also have contacted several in the last two weeks explaining I am in a cash position and ready to buy the right boat at the right price, the amount of effort exerted by these brokers to date is zero.
Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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I agree 100%. I made numerous contacts with a broker about a specific boat. He was supposed to get some addl info. Never did. I contacted the owner of the brokerage. "He'll get that to you immediately." Never did. It's a rare boat broker who pays attention to his clients, either sellers or buyers.
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27-10-2016, 09:19
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Boat: Catalina 470
Posts: 4,578
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Re: Brokers Fees
Quote:
Originally Posted by aclmck
One was from Turkey, it was that i would pay 50% of his commission and the seller pay the other half, the other was for a boat in Montenegro(so i didn't even look at the boat) but I'm not sure where the broker was based.
But they were both up front so i could at least deduct this amount from the price before i made an offer , just never heard of it before and was curious as to if this was a practice in some countries. (i don't think they were trying to scam me only make me aware of the selling procedures in the relative deals, perhaps the seller would have paid them the full commission as well though) so yes then it would have been a scam but i doubt the seller would ever been aware of it in most cases.
I also thought it was odd and never said anything to the first salesman but questioned a little the second one but with langue barriers i never really understood the reasoning behind it.
it is interesting that some of the brokers were completely up front and answered everything with good responses other you could straight away feel that all was not as it should be and a close inspection of the boats would reveal why.
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Could you tell us the name of the brokers in those two countries? Im looking online at boats in those countries amongst other's with intentions of flying to Europe in November.
A big part of the business I had involved sales, ive given 4 brokers the opportunity to build a relationship with me, none have tried.
If a broker explains to me that he will be charging me to buy a boat from him I will be explaining to him that I will be deducting his commision from my offer, therefore I will not be paying his commision.
Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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27-10-2016, 10:05
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 41
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Re: Brokers Fees
Quote:
Originally Posted by aclmck
I have recently looked at several boats in a few different countries and ran across the brokers(not all ) insisting that if a deal was done, i as a purchaser will pay 50% of the brokers commission is this normal?
I have sold boats before and i had to pay the brokers on the final sale price the full commission.
I had not heard of this before but a couple of brokers told me up front that these were the rules in their country for this type of sale, all boats were listed on yacht world with no indication that this was the case, can any of you elaborate on this?
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Does Broker get percentage, or is his fee fixed? I assume he will get more money the higher the selling point. He does better if price is high.
Ask to whom he has the fiduciary responsibility.
If he blinks at that... run. You don't want to deal with a broker that will not/cannot answer that question, or is unfamiliar with the concept of a fiduciary responsibility.
Its a good question to have in your back pocket for most financial transactions.
I ran into something similar when I bought my house. Oklahoma apparently splits the buyer/seller fees. Realtor wanted to represent both seller, and me (and thus get both ends of the transaction). That's the way its done, he claimed. I caused a stink and got a different Realtor for my end. Lots of evil eyes at the table, but at least my end got represented...
If fees are split as in my example, is there a way to arrange for your own Broker to represent you, the buyer? Pay him the Buyer side of the Transaction.
-sterling
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27-10-2016, 10:32
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Brazil, Spain, The Netherlands
Boat: Boatless at the moment
Posts: 381
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Re: Brokers Fees
In Italy it is indeed common that the buyer pays commission (as is certainly demonstrated by the purchase of various yachts in Italy where I have been involved). There are sometimes several agents in the game, so make sure you have the correct contact.
Note also that, when you buy a yacht in Italy, makes clear agreements about everything and document everything clearly.
You can buy fine yachts in Italy, but it will not be the first time that no one shows up at the sceduled time and place, while the buyer arrive two days before the trial run which is agreed upon that morning ...
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27-10-2016, 13:33
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Croatia making our way back to the Carib
Boat: Lagoon 42
Posts: 325
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Re: Brokers Fees
I have seen that several times as well but as far as I can remember only in Italy ? And they are quite upfront about it
so negotiate it down to a price where you calculate that in as well
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