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Old 06-02-2016, 07:03   #61
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

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Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
Full or cutaway forefoot full keel worked for us. Essential in Antarctica to ride up on bergie bits and ice pans. Essential when hitting ocean debris like tree limbs, containers, and oil drums(lots of those). Really helped when an unidentified whale decided to rub his/her back on the keel. Came in handy in so many third world places where we needed to haul out( most yards can not do fins). Finally, the ride, the luxurious ride a full keel gives in terms of a smooth boat motion. For long distances, that is one of the most important things.
If "compatibility with the world and what nature can throw at you" is of paramount importance then a centerboarder, like an Ovni, is probably the superior choice...
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Old 06-02-2016, 14:55   #62
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

Centerboards are the worst keels to have if your going around the world. Endless problems.
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Old 06-02-2016, 15:39   #63
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

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I sail Florida Keys Bahamas Caribbean, only...this is it for me.. gorgeous...external lead , SS bolted and backplated, properly bedded to a thick plastic bilge,.. shoal longish fin, cb fine,.. big skegged rudder, anything over 4.5 ft is unacceptable for me...this is about identical to the 35 ft r I lived and sailed on 35 years ago, but my current ;pictured, is thicker, stronger, bigger and heavier displacement; both my boats designed by my fav Charley Morgan
I'm only sailing the above seas tho...of course its subjective...

clic on pic 3 times for xl view
Awesome set-up! I know how shallow it can get in the keys! Lol
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Old 07-02-2016, 17:34   #64
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

This does it for me
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Old 07-02-2016, 18:15   #65
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

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Centerboards are the worst keels to have if your going around the world. Endless problems.
Cornell circumnavigated 2 times in different boats, first a full keel, than an heavy modified fin keel steel keeler, the 3rd one on a French light aluminium centerboard, an OVNI 43 and decided that was the best design for a circumnavigation and when we went for the 4th one had Garcia designing for him another aluminium centerboarder. Don't know if he has already finished the 4th but he says wonders about the boat.

I would say that he knows about centerboarders and would not have chosen another one if they give the problems you say. Before Cornell having made the first circumnavigation with one the French had already adopted aluminium centerboarders as the ideal voyage/exploration boat and today several brands produce those voyage boats,most French some Dutch, that are pretty much considered today the best option in what regards voyage/exploration boats.






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Old 07-02-2016, 19:00   #66
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

Seems like a lot of keel aficionados on this thread. Would like to know what my keel is really referred to. I've been told it's a modified full keel but still not convinced.

Thanks!!
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Old 10-02-2016, 23:18   #67
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

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Seems like a lot of keel aficionados on this thread. Would like to know what my keel is really referred to. I've been told it's a modified full keel but still not convinced.

Thanks!!
I believe your drawing does not depict what is typically called a "modified full keel." I think my boat, the Columbia 29, has that, though we often use the term "long keel" these days. However, have a look at this by Ted Brewer, perhaps it will clear things up... or not.
Good Old Boat - Keel design: What's best? article
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Old 11-02-2016, 11:31   #68
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

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I believe your drawing does not depict what is typically called a "modified full keel." I think my boat, the Columbia 29, has that, though we often use the term "long keel" these days. However, have a look at this by Ted Brewer, perhaps it will clear things up... or not.
Good Old Boat - Keel design: What's best? article
Don,

Thanks for the link. He had a drawing that matched my keel exactly.

It's a Fin Keel with a Skeg Rudder. The comment next to it said typical 90's style. I found that interesting because my boat was designed in 1974. I have read several articles about the architect, Michel Bigoin, that he was ahead of his time on his designs. I don't know if it is typical, but my keel weighs 18000 lbs. The entire boat weighs 38000 lbs so it's almost half the total weight, empty of course. I'm guessing I have another 6000 lbs added with gear, furniture, personal effects, water and fuel, etc.

Thanks again,

Jeff
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Old 11-02-2016, 11:48   #69
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

Nothing safer than a centerboarder. So many options. Just like a solent rig.......
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Old 11-02-2016, 12:33   #70
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

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Nothing safer than a centerboarder. So many options. Just like a solent rig.......
I don't know anything about centerboards, just what I have seen on smaller boats and pictures I have seen of centerboard sailboats laying on the side of their hull or completely upside down after being knocked down.

I always assumed that they were lake boats, not bluewater.

Is there enough weight on a larger centerboard design to prevent a knockdown in extreme conditions, and if it does go over, expect it to right itself?

Thanks,

Jeff
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Old 11-02-2016, 13:08   #71
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

I think a spade (=fin) keel is the most common keel in new boats.

I do not have any personal preference - they all sail as well. Fin keels seem faster than full length keels but full length keels require less concentration when driving.

Our own boat is a double ender and we have what can be described as full length keel with moderate fore cutaway. Our rudder comes last and is visible behind the boat and moved with a tiller. This is a very simple and practical layout and keel config for any small boat. The downside is you will hit the rudder against the dock when backing and so we always dock head first.

Modern classics are now built that have 100% classic topsides and a shallow canoe with a fin/bulb keel. These are awesome as they offer pleasing looks and great performance.

So, to wrap it up, no keel religion here.

PS Next time you think about keels, walk into your boatyard and look not from the side profile but rather from the bow - you will discover that a fin keel NOT= fin keel and a long keel NOT= long keel. It is surprising how few sailors notice this given how important this factor is to how a boat sails.

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Old 11-02-2016, 13:08   #72
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

You might go back to that article by Ted Brewer about centerboarders. Sparkman and Stephens and Charlie Morgan designed quite a few centerboarders that were pretty stable, "bluewater" and still popular designs for shoal draft designs.
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Old 11-02-2016, 17:24   #73
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

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I don't know anything about centerboards, just what I have seen on smaller boats and pictures I have seen of centerboard sailboats laying on the side of their hull or completely upside down after being knocked down.

I always assumed that they were lake boats, not bluewater.

Is there enough weight on a larger centerboard design to prevent a knockdown in extreme conditions, and if it does go over, expect it to right itself?

Thanks,

Jeff
Not all centerboarders are the same but they have to be RCD approved and voyage boats obviously approved on category A and that means they have to have a decent AVS and expect to right itself on the given sea way in a reasonable time, if capsized.

All sailboats can have a knock down but a monohull cat A will be able to right itself up quickly and yes that is the case with modern centerboarders.

For being able to do that, even if most of them carry the most ballast in a skeg outside the hull, they have to carry much more ballast than a deep keel boat with a bulb (a bigger B/D ratio for the same RM).
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Old 12-02-2016, 05:49   #74
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

A centerboard boat does not need as much righting stuff as a deep keel one: it is designed to dissipate some of wave energy into skid. You can read in the Dashews on this.

Build a small boat model, give it a deep foil keel, try to tip it over. Then remove the keel and repeat the experiment. Noticed the difference?

Also - some centerboarders have deep canoe bodies with lead ballast there. If the cabintop is voluminous enough, these will come back from a deep roll.

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Old 12-02-2016, 06:36   #75
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

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A centerboard boat does not need as much righting stuff as a deep keel one: it is designed to dissipate some of wave energy into skid. You can read in the Dashews on this.

Build a small boat model, give it a deep foil keel, try to tip it over. Then remove the keel and repeat the experiment. Noticed the difference?
...
b.
You are right about that. Now try the same with a boat with a deep full keel and a boat with a very narrow foil and a torpedo keel. Noticed the difference?

The reasons are the same, less submersed wet area, less tripping effect and easier to skid on the water surface dissipating the energy of a capsized wave.
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