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Old 20-01-2016, 18:09   #46
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Short fin if I am crew..
Long keel if I am the Skipper...
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Old 20-01-2016, 18:11   #47
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

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Finally - I've been sitting here with my ready way too long
Gimme some Lizzy... I'm out.. Lol
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Old 20-01-2016, 18:15   #48
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
For what intended use?

For example, my H33 has a deep narrow fin. Great for racing and day sailing, but would not want that for cruising.
Good point... I should have clarified... I live on a river that's one nautical mile from the ocean, so I kind of have the best of both worlds... So from an intended use perspective? Which would be best suited for both purposes?
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Old 20-01-2016, 18:33   #49
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

I really like bilge keels for the Irish Sea, but only because they allow free moorings up small estuaries (I admit it is very handy to be able to easily dry out too), in the general area where I live.

But for real distance work, while a big fan of the traditional (and deeper draft - Folkboat, Nicholson, etc) long keel, I've come round to the encapsulated keel that's cut away to a fin with a reasonable shoal draft, and with the rudder on a skeg (should be manageable with beaching legs if I want too). Even though I hope to spend a fair bit of time in the Caribbean (so shoal draft will be handy), that shoal draft will be really handy for getting over bars at the entrance to a few local estuaries, among other places.

Like this, which is decent displacement for its size, and a bit reminiscent of the more traditional designs:

ENDEAVOUR 32 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Which is what I am in the process of buying (subject to survey, etc).

To me it's a sort of better Sadler 32 (though those that like very different aspects of the Sadler, would probably disagree with me quite strongly).
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Old 20-01-2016, 18:59   #50
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

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Originally Posted by Curious Sailor View Post
Good point... I should have clarified... I live on a river that's one nautical mile from the ocean, so I kind of have the best of both worlds... So from an intended use perspective? Which would be best suited for both purposes?
Why choose? I live on a river with ocean access too. The H33 is for day sailing. The catamaran is for cruising. The skiff, no keel, is for getting up and down the river fast.

For a cruising mono, my preference is a relatively deep draft (~5') modified fin with skeg hung rudder. Like my last cruising mono, pic attached. You were assuming monos right?

(re pic: bet you've never seen a travel lift waiting for a traffic light to change! )

Come to think of it, I used to live on a different river with ocean access when I owned that boat. Worked great for cruising the river and coastal too.
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Old 20-01-2016, 20:21   #51
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

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Old 20-01-2016, 21:26   #52
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

While we're at it... Perhaps this is an idea whose time has come - again. Once popular in Northern Europe they fell out of favor in recent times.

But nowadays boaters - especially racers, but non-racers as well - are doing all kinds of goofy things with keels and fins and wings and things. And as we know some of those fads are downright dangerous.

Interestingly leeboards provide benefits to a sailboat in both its dynamic and static states - when it's sailing and when it's moored. Granted leeboards aren't perfect for all users under all conditions but consider some of the advantages the offer.

Dynamically they always put the maximum * available * keel surface to work on the leeward side of the hull. Handy, since a sailboat sails on its side.

Equally valuable they provide a retractable and adjustable fin like a centerboard - but without a through-hull gash or monopolizing interior space. They also do not have the mechanical complications of a lifting keel.

Obviously they facilitate exploring thin waters.

Statically they can be used to prop the boat upright when it grounds out. Leeboards are used that way routinely in some areas.

The Dutch developed leeboards to a fare-thee-well, although I don't think leeboards were developed much for offshore work. But maybe there is room for improvement there. Especially when you consider that they have traditionally been limited largely to wooden construction. Stronger modern materials like steel open up new vistas for things like this. Done right I think it has real possibilities.
The [hopefully] attached picture of an 1884 Boeier jacht came from the Zuiderzee-Museum, Enkhuizen, Noord-Holland.

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Old 20-01-2016, 22:12   #53
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

I sail Florida Keys Bahamas Caribbean, only...this is it for me.. gorgeous...external lead , SS bolted and backplated, properly bedded to a thick plastic bilge,.. shoal longish fin, cb fine,.. big skegged rudder, anything over 4.5 ft is unacceptable for me...this is about identical to the 35 ft r I lived and sailed on 35 years ago, but my current ;pictured, is thicker, stronger, bigger and heavier displacement; both my boats designed by my fav Charley Morgan
I'm only sailing the above seas tho...of course its subjective...

clic on pic 3 times for xl view
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Old 20-01-2016, 23:12   #54
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

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Well ... nice as that keel is, have you seen the sexy lil fin the O29 sports?

Oh SURE, sexy is nice, and yours is quite nice, and one could easily be seduced by that type, but better to choose the type that is handsome, strong, stable and reliable!
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Old 20-01-2016, 23:14   #55
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

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What DonCL says, because no keel is finer than that of a Columbia 29!
Ah bailsout, you have unusually fine taste in keels...
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Old 20-01-2016, 23:53   #56
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

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Originally Posted by JTHAW View Post
I sail Florida Keys Bahamas Caribbean, only...this is it for me.. gorgeous...external lead , SS bolted and backplated, properly bedded to a thick plastic bilge,.. shoal longish fin, cb fine,.. big skegged rudder, anything over 4.5 ft is unacceptable for me...this is about identical to the 35 ft r I lived and sailed on 35 years ago, but my current ;pictured, is thicker, stronger, bigger and heavier displacement; both my boats designed by my fav Charley Morgan
I'm only sailing the above seas tho...of course its subjective...

clic on pic 3 times for xl view
SEVEN HUNDRED &SIXTY litres of water!! Is that right?
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Old 21-01-2016, 01:29   #57
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

This one.


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Old 21-01-2016, 05:04   #58
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

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Originally Posted by Dick Moby View Post
While we're at it... Perhaps this is an idea whose time has come - again. Once popular in Northern Europe they fell out of favor in recent times.

But nowadays boaters - especially racers, but non-racers as well - are doing all kinds of goofy things with keels and fins and wings and things. And as we know some of those fads are downright dangerous.

Interestingly leeboards provide benefits to a sailboat in both its dynamic and static states - when it's sailing and when it's moored. Granted leeboards aren't perfect for all users under all conditions but consider some of the advantages the offer.

Dynamically they always put the maximum * available * keel surface to work on the leeward side of the hull. Handy, since a sailboat sails on its side.

Equally valuable they provide a retractable and adjustable fin like a centerboard - but without a through-hull gash or monopolizing interior space. They also do not have the mechanical complications of a lifting keel.

Obviously they facilitate exploring thin waters.

Statically they can be used to prop the boat upright when it grounds out. Leeboards are used that way routinely in some areas.

The Dutch developed leeboards to a fare-thee-well, although I don't think leeboards were developed much for offshore work. But maybe there is room for improvement there. Especially when you consider that they have traditionally been limited largely to wooden construction. Stronger modern materials like steel open up new vistas for things like this. Done right I think it has real possibilities.
The [hopefully] attached picture of an 1884 Boeier jacht came from the Zuiderzee-Museum, Enkhuizen, Noord-Holland.

Boaters doing nowadays dangerous things with keels?

I guess you are talking about Naval architects? and if I understand your drift all of the best are doing those dangerous things since all of them are reaching for the same type of efficient and safe solutions in what regards keel function.

Regarding that type of keel it is not practical and will leave out one of the functions for what a keel is used too: put the ballast as down as possible lowering the boat CG.

Regarding the advantage of having a foil on the leeward part of the hull (since those keels you posted work like a foil) that happens with those twin keels, since one is always the leeward part of the hull but also on some performance monohulls that besides a keel that is used mostly to put ballast where it counts most, have two foils (daggerboards) one of each side of the hull.

Not practical and expensive in what regards cruising boats even if some big expensive ones use them.
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Old 05-02-2016, 20:10   #59
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

Awesome info polux! Thanks!
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Old 06-02-2016, 06:51   #60
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Re: What type of keel do you prefer?

Full or cutaway forefoot full keel worked for us. Essential in Antarctica to ride up on bergie bits and ice pans. Essential when hitting ocean debris like tree limbs, containers, and oil drums(lots of those). Really helped when an unidentified whale decided to rub his/her back on the keel. Came in handy in so many third world places where we needed to haul out( most yards can not do fins). Finally, the ride, the luxurious ride a full keel gives in terms of a smooth boat motion. For long distances, that is one of the most important things.
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