Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-01-2016, 11:57   #91
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 48
Re: Share some Sailing Terms....

The thing and the other thing: the two most important components of sail trim.





------------------------------
"I wonder if he is using the same wind we are using." Inigo Motoya
__________________

__________________
Be Free is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2016, 12:04   #92
Registered User
 
ryon's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 588
Re: Share some Sailing Terms....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jongleur View Post
Okay, let's try this tack: Two scenarios.

#1
Captain: Sailor! Haul the downhaul!
Sailor: Aye aye Captain!
Captain: Sailor! I thought I told you to haul the downhaul.
Sailor: I did, Captain. The luff is tight.
Captain: No, no. I meant haul that other downhaul line,
the one that takes the sail down.
Sailor: Oh. Yes sir. Right away sir.

Or

#2
Captain: Sailor! Haul the disgracing line.
Sailor: Aye Aye Captain!
Captain: Well done, Sailor.

References? We don' need no stinkin' references.
Which disgracing line, Cap'n? We have six of them! Seven if you count the flying jib, which we don't have rigged at the moment. Don't you want me to cast off the halyards first? Nothing's coming down until we cast those off. If you want me to tighten up luffs on the gaff-tops, I can haul the tacks for you. That would probably be better. And why are you telling me how to do my job?

"Dammit, Ryon! Can't you take a simple order?"
__________________

__________________
ryon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2016, 13:31   #93
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Central California
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 873
Re: Share some Sailing Terms....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryon View Post
Which disgracing line, Cap'n? We have six of them! Seven if you count the flying jib, which we don't have rigged at the moment. Don't you want me to cast off the halyards first? Nothing's coming down until we cast those off. If you want me to tighten up luffs on the gaff-tops, I can haul the tacks for you. That would probably be better. And why are you telling me how to do my job?

"Dammit, Ryon! Can't you take a simple order?"
If you're trying to refute my argument,
your logic is backwards.
__________________
Bill
...........................................
You can't buy happiness, but you can buy ribeye.
jongleur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2016, 13:53   #94
Registered User
 
ryon's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 588
Re: Share some Sailing Terms....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jongleur View Post
If you're trying to refute my argument,
your logic is backwards.
Only if you're the captain.
__________________
ryon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2016, 16:42   #95
Senior Cruiser
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43
Posts: 6,713
Re: Share some Sailing Terms....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jongleur View Post
Okay, let's try this tack: Two scenarios.

#1
Captain: Sailor! Haul the downhaul!
Sailor: Aye aye Captain!
Captain: Sailor! I thought I told you to haul the downhaul.
Sailor: I did, Captain. The luff is tight.
Captain: No, no. I meant haul that other downhaul line,
the one that takes the sail down.
Sailor: Oh. Yes sir. Right away sir.

Or

#2
Captain: Sailor! Haul the disgracing line.
Sailor: Aye Aye Captain!
Captain: Well done, Sailor.

References? We don' need no stinkin' references.
#1
Captain: Sailor! Haul the downhaul!
Sailor: Aye aye Captain!
Captain: Well done, Sailor.

Or

#2
Captain: Sailor! Haul the disgracing line.
Sailor: What's a disgracing line, Captain!
Captain: Oh, that's what I call that line that you use to haul down the sail.
Sailor: (under breath (Oh, the downhaul! WTF?).
Aye aye Captain!
(under breath - Prat!)
__________________
StuM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2016, 16:47   #96
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,466
Re: Share some Sailing Terms....

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
#1
Captain: Sailor! Haul the downhaul!
Sailor: Aye aye Captain!
Captain: Well done, Sailor.

Or

#2
Captain: Sailor! Haul the disgracing line.
Sailor: What's a disgracing line, Captain!
Captain: Oh, that's what I call that line that you use to haul down the sail.
Sailor: (under breath (Oh, the downhaul! WTF?).
Aye aye Captain!
(under breath - Prat!)
Aye, that's the likely outcome!

As they say, different ships, different longsplices... and different local nomenclature.

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2016, 16:51   #97
Senior Cruiser
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43
Posts: 6,713
Re: Share some Sailing Terms....

Quote:
Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Hence the term "man the braces"
In this part of the world at least, we use the word "brace" rather than "guy" for the spinnaker sheet on the pole side (unless you have both a sheet and a brace/guy on both clews as some do).
__________________
StuM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2016, 16:56   #98
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,048
Images: 1
Re: Share some Sailing Terms....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
and different local nomenclature.

Jim
Boom vang or kicking strap?



When I called it the former an RYA trained person told me that was the funniest phrase he had ever heard.
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2016, 17:06   #99
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,466
Re: Share some Sailing Terms....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Boom vang or kicking strap?



When I called it the former an RYA trained person told me that was the funniest phrase he had ever heard.
And in some places that device is called a "go fast". None of them make much literal sense, so I guess we gotta go with the local flow if we want to be understood... but I don't see why "boom vang" was so funny!

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2016, 17:21   #100
Registered User
 
ryon's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 588
Re: Share some Sailing Terms....

"Del Rey Rigging." The curious practice of displaying ship's fenders while under sail. Or as the sailors of Marina del Rey call them, "bumpers".
__________________
ryon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2016, 18:14   #101
Registered User
 
Alan Mighty's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Scarborough Marina, Moreton Bay
Posts: 663
Re: Share some Sailing Terms....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Boom vang or kicking strap?
Kicking strap, the preferred term in the UK, was a horse harness term.


The term is documented by the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) since 1861: "They had‥his belly-band buckled across his back, and no kicking strap."


So a kicking strap was originally a strap to prevent a horse kicking its hind legs (and so disturbing the gentle folks sitting in the carriage behind).


The OED records the transfer of the term to sailing in 1951: "It is to prevent the boom from lifting that a kicking strap is fitted." The OED details the use of the term further with a citation from 1961: "It is in a gybe that a kicking-strap proves its worth, since it holds down the after end of the boom thereby allowing complete control to be maintained over the sail at all stages of the manœuvre."


Vang and boom vang have a longer history, dating to the days of square rigs (instead of the more recent fore-and-aft/Marconi/Bermudian rigs). The OED (again, the best authority for first appearance of a term in Engllish) dates the first appearance of vang to 1769 in Falconer's marine dictionary where vang is used in two definitions: "Brace: The mizen-yard is furnished with fangs, or vangs, in the room of braces."; and "Vangs: a sort of braces to support the mizen gaff, and keep it steady."


Note that first citation from Falconer in 1769: "fangs, or vangs". That suggests that vang was a spelling and pronunciation variant of fang. The OED records a first use of the nautical term fang in early Modern English in 1513: "Now the lie scheit, and now the luf, thai slak, Set in a fang, and threw the ra abak". That etymological line leads all the way back to the concept of a fang as something that captures or seizes, to hold steady and so on.


The earliest published use of boom vang I found was in 1948, where it was used as a synonym for kicking strap (and incidentally predated the OED's 1948 record for kicking strap): "boom vang (or kicking strap, as some call it)". I do not have the resources of the OED, so I cannot guarantee that boom vang was not used in print earlier than 1948 (and the 1948 citation I found is further evidence that the OED is not the perfect source for sailing terms - the readers for the OED just don't read specialist sailing magazines or the catalogs of marine suppliers).


Make of all that what you will (and depending on your viewpoint).


My view is partly influenced by the ideas of Jacques Derrida and what he called deconstruction in looking at a text and its meanings. So I see kicking strap as a term that the British horse-and-carriage owning class would have used. And of course that socio-economic class strata in Britain also overlapped with the owners of recreational yachts.


And I dare to extend that to the sort of chaps from good family backgrounds who might be RYA trainers at good yachting clubs with the 'Royal' prefix, who might pass on their disdain for non-U (read as "non-upper class") terms to those trained by them (and hence to the person Jack Dale met, to explain that person's laughter at anyone using a term not authorised as proper by the unwritten guidelines of the 'right' socio-economic class.


Or it might just be that the RYA-trained person who scoffed at Jack Dale's use of boom vang was a simple person, not well read and with narrow contact with the wider community, who simply was hearing boom vang for the first time.


Either way, the person who scoffed at JD's use of boom vang likely qualifies as a prat: A person of no account; a dolt, a fool, a ‘jerk’.


The OED glosses prat with:


1968 "He had been looking for the exact word to describe David and now he found it: prat."
1973 "Harris was a bit of a pompous prat."
1980 "The pompous prat. The I-know-people-in-high-places nut."
__________________
“Only a fool learns from his own mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others.” - Otto von Bismarck
Alan Mighty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2016, 23:43   #102
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,941
Images: 1
Re: Share some Sailing Terms....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Boom vang or kicking strap?



When I called it the former an RYA trained person told me that was the funniest phrase he had ever heard.
In Denmark - this is called a "kicking strap" (we are all upper class types here)

All you american types call this a "vang" or a "boom vang" Took me quite a while to figure out what you were talking about (just goes to show - should never mix company with all those lower class types)
__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2016, 00:36   #103
Registered User
 
Alan Mighty's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Scarborough Marina, Moreton Bay
Posts: 663
Re: Share some Sailing Terms....

Quote:
Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
In Denmark - this is called a "kicking strap" (we are all upper class types here)

All you american types call this a "vang" or a "boom vang" Took me quite a while to figure out what you were talking about (just goes to show - should never mix company with all those lower class types)
The Ngram of kicking strap versus boom vang, as created by Google from its database of published English 1800-2000 should give you an idea whether you are on the right side of history.


The use of "kicking strap" before 1940 is entirely related to the kicking strap on horses.


The Ngram shows "boom vang" used once in 1916 (boom vang pendants) and again in 1939 (in specifications for a lighthouse tender: Boom vang stainless- steel wire rope pendants with steel blocks and manila tackle shall be fitted as will be directed).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	boom vang vs kicking strap.jpg
Views:	91
Size:	59.3 KB
ID:	116683  
__________________
“Only a fool learns from his own mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others.” - Otto von Bismarck
Alan Mighty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2016, 01:09   #104
Registered User
 
PangurBan's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 47
Re: Share some Sailing Terms....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Boom vang or kicking strap?







When I called it the former an RYA trained person told me that was the funniest phrase he had ever heard.

It can also be called a martingale (Eric Hiscock: Cruising under Sail).


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
PangurBan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2016, 02:34   #105
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,333
Re: Share some Sailing Terms....

Quote:
Originally Posted by PangurBan View Post
It can also be called a martingale (Eric Hiscock: Cruising under Sail).


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
Another Equine term
Prevents a horse lifting it's head too high. Goes between noseband and breast plate.
__________________

__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sail, sailing

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Share a boat, share the expenses stefano_ita Boat Ownership & Making a Living 14 28-06-2015 13:40
Sailing Terms and Commands as We Hear Them Steady Hand Seamanship & Boat Handling 32 20-11-2014 11:14
Nautical Terms GordMay General Sailing Forum 12 01-11-2014 11:06
Can you help me with some sailing terms? razerwire Meets & Greets 26 06-05-2008 12:42
Contract terms Kipper Off Topic Forum 6 28-03-2007 13:21



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:18.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.