Scuba, Hookah, Brownie Alternatives?

[Rick]

Yeah, I know that second stage is designed so that if you inhale then a slightly lower pressure in the "tongue" side of the regulator causes the valve to open letting in air yet I don't know (and don't assume) that it is true for the opposite differential....is that true as well?

[Fishspearit]

Ok, I reread the posts, and there are two reasons why the ruptured hose is not going to be a problem other than the fact that you now have to do a controlled emergency swimming ascent which you practiced in your scuba training class.
One, the pressure difference you described,

"In the case of inhaling air while at a depth of 6 feet the lungs hold a positive pressure compared to the ruptured hose at a surface pressure of 1 atmosphere and that pressure is against where the airway closes when holding one's breath. If the differential is great enough you damage yourself, maybe causing death..it has happened."

A hose that is open at the surface, led down to 33 feet, will have 2 atmospheres of pressure at 33 feet. Not just the 1 atmosphere felt at the surface but also the weight of the air in the column leading down to the diver at 33 feet, being the same pressure as in the divers lungs. I think that you're forgetting that the air and seawater still exert their pressure on that hose no matter how deep you are.
Secondly, on the second stage regulator the intermediate pressure (from compressor or 1st stage reg) flows through an orifice and pushes against the seat, which is held shut by the spring. It uses that air pressure to help open the valve. This is why second stage regs must always be adjusted to the intermediate pressure, and you cant just take any reg, throw it on a hose at the end of a compressor and go diving. If the 2nd stage is adjusted for a 120# I.P. and you give it a #135 pound source it will freeflow the 2nd stage. If it's set for #145 and your compressor is putting out #120 you're going to be pulling like hill to get air through it. That is what limits the depth of hookahs, after the #30 pressure difference of diving 60' you work too hard to open the reg valve.
The second stage really needs to be properly adjusted on a hookah for use at the surface with a magnahelix gauge at 1.0 -1.2" of mercury. Which is one more reason why people reading this thread shouldn't just go to home depot buy a compressor and start diving. There are lots to go wrong, a lot of physics involved, and a lot of equipment. Take a dive class to learn the basics first. Diving is an unregulated sport, Darwinism still rules the day, that's why the industry regulates itself and requires certification before air fills.

[Canibul]

Thats true, but any idiot can buy a compressor to fill his own tanks. I know. I have done it lots of times!!

[2divers]

I have been bent and I have ABSOLUTELY no wish to repeat the experience. Suffice to say that I was lucky (or stupid) since I was a test subject at Duke university for D.A.N.'s Flying After Diving Experiments in the late 90's. (It's amazing what a broke college kid will do for cash!)

Being bent is different for everyone. It occurs/ feels different and in different places and once you've had it it you are more susceptable to it again. Do I still dive, yes, I even became an instructor. Do I dive like I did then... not just no.....

Just because you are breath hold diving does not make you immune to DCS either. There are several well documented situations where breath hold divers have had the bends and not gotten treatment they needed.

Be very careful using a hookah. It is possible too spend longer than you should at depth. That being said, it your using to clean the bottom of boats only (0-10 feet) you would have to spend more time underwater than would be comfortable either in warmth or cotton mouth. The only other peice of adivse I dive to all my students is to drink more water or gatoraid to stay hydrated. It helps reduce the incidence of DCS.

2divers

[Canibul]

Thats interesting about the Flying after Diving study. Thats what happened to me the ONLY time I have gotten bent in 43 years of diving around the world. Stupidity, and the desire to get home on a Friday night taking a short flight from Long Island MacArthur up to Boston. I knew where I was dc-wise at sea level....and I KNEW I would be lowering the ambient pressure ( I am also a pilot), but I was not concentrating on anything but peeling off that wetsuit in the Hertz car and making the flight.
Of course, as soon as the plane landed I was MUCh better...but it was a long long flight for so few miles covered.

[2divers]

Yeah I got bent in the chamber on a simulated flight after about 45 minutes into the trip.

The pain wasn't so bad, I've been hurt worse (but not by much), it was the lack of ability to use my left knee (just didn't want to work!) That and spending the next 4 hours being stared at as they "un-bent" me really sucked! My knee still throbs just thinking about it.

Now the two dives in a big chamber were really cool! I could feel the foam in my sneakers compress as I paced and cleared my ears on the way down. What was really cool was putting my dive computer in a bucket of water at my ankles and watching it start to drop to 60 feet and I was still dry...

2divers

[muskoka]

I purchased a compact shallow dive system called the Mini-B. It's a 10L bottle in a one-piece pack/buoyancy vest. The advantage is it's easy to store, quick to put on and not too heavy (I suppose aluminum bottles would help). You can put 50% of the weights in the pack/vest and the rest in a belt (or all in the belt).

http://www.mini-b.com/

I thought it looked great for a quick over-the-side to check the anchor, clear the props etc.

[PHIL+MARYANNE]

Lot of good stuff on this thread! We're pretty serious about getting a Hooka for our boat - a 42' cat. Have read and understand the 'bent' issues and making sure you follow formal dive tables and such... IMHO one would be nuts to get into a decomp situation on a hooka (which might suddenly STOP), without a backup bottle waiting for you at 15'!

But for our normal purposes, we think a Hooka would be more convenient given our limited space and desire to keep weight light. BTW, will also get one or two small tanks for QUICK descents when needed.

So anyone have opinions about Air Line vs Brownie? They seem to be the two big dogs in the biz?

Cheers!
Phil

[chuckr]

Phil -- atts and lats had a way to make your own -- go to home depot and get and OILLESS air compressor then 50' of high pressure hose and then to a dive store and a 2nd stage regulator - and stainless steel fittings if you can find them or brass -- and save about $1,000
chuck and soulmates

[SVPendragon]

But if I thought that my life is worth more than the $1000 I'd save and decided to buy one a properly contruscted, safe unit which would it be? Airline or Brownie

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by chuckr

Phil -- atts and lats had a way to make your own -- go to home depot and get and OILLESS air compressor then 50' of high pressure hose and then to a dive store and a 2nd stage regulator - and stainless steel fittings if you can find them or brass -- and save about $1,000
chuck and soulmates

Only an idiot buys the hose he breathes through at Home Depot.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by PHIL+MARYANNE

So anyone have opinions about Air Line vs Brownie? They seem to be the two big dogs in the biz?

Brownies is waaay overpriced and heavy on the cheap plastic goodies, IMHO. Try Super Snorkel:

http://www.supersnorkel.com/

[wmclibby]

It appears that Fstbttms wants to turn this thread into “name calling” (idiot) rather than an opportunity to share ideas and goodwill within the cruising community. Perhaps he would like to qualify his statement, but most likely not.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by wmclibby

It appears that Fstbttms wants to turn this thread into “name calling” (idiot) rather than an opportunity to share ideas and goodwill within the cruising community. Perhaps he would like to qualify his statement, but most likely not.

Hit a little close to home, did I?

I guess you haven't been reading this thread, since the issue of breathing hose was discussed several pages ago. But I'll lay it out for you again and maybe I'll save your lungs and life at the same time. Pnuematic hose (like you find at Home Depot) is not rated to provide breathing air. It is designed to carry air and oil to pnuematic tools. As such, it is tested with air and oil. And when you breath through it, you breath that oil. No SCUBA instructor or professional diver in the world would ever condone the use of such hose for any breathing application.

Breathing compressed air underwater is a serious proposition with potentially deadly ramifications for those who don't know what they're doing. Anybody considering putting together a DIY hookah rig should really get some education before doing so.

[Canibul]

I researched the J.Sink Airline and Brownies. Decided the Brownies was the better product and the WAY better company to deal with. they havent let me down. Joe Sink is a disgruntled former Brownie employee who left on bad terms.

On another subject, I suspect some others of you have been following this. I know I have. Some serious questions here.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/22/div....ap/index.html