Rebreathers for Beginners ?

[Matt sachs]

Well, I did it. I bought a Mark VI discovery. The adventure begins with the first training class this January.
I'm sold on the quality of the machine. I'm still on the fence about beginners doing this thou. time will tell.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

Really.. tell more please..DVC

Pure oxygen rebreathers are limited to max 20', period. Deeper than that on O2 can easily kill you.

If the system is based on air, 21% oygen depending on manual valve opening to replace the exact percentage of metabolized oxygen I think it would be extremely dangerous.

[skipmac]

Electronic, closed circuit rebreathers, in my opinion, are not for beginners and I would never depend on a fully automated system to keep me alive without fully understanding the system, knowing that it had redundant bail out modes and how to use them.

If the O2 balance goes off then you are at extreme risk to go hypoxic or hyperoxic, either of which can kill you very quickly.

So here is a system that is used in water, possibly salt water and all sailors know how salt water and electronics work together, that is depending on complex electronics to keep you alive. Plus the O2 sensors are highly sensitive to humidity and can fail or give erroneous readings to the computer control system in a potentially high moisture, closed gas loop.

I would not dive a breather without serious training and a real need for the system. The diver and his or her dive partner need to be completely familiar with all the symptoms of hyper and hypo oxia and the bailout procedures for going open circuit, bypassing all the automated and electronic controls, to get out in case of failure.

Death rate for breathers is much higher than open circuit. Just a couple of years back one of the most experience cave divers in FL died using a rebreather in an "easy" open water dive.

Great tool, would love to have one, but not the right tool for a newbie, regardless of what the ads say. For mixed gas diving in remote locations off a small boat a breather would be great, allowing use of nitrox or trimix in locations where mixing or even obtaining gas is a problem. A little gas can go a long way with a breather.

If you just want to jump in the water and look at fish, use a tank.

[Matt sachs]

These units are sweet. The closed circuit and the open circuit use the same regulator. If something isn't right and you need open circuit bailout, just slide a lever and you are on open curcuit. Yes, it is computer controlled, (by three computers) but in a bail out situation, its just an open circuit with out any elecrtonics needed. Granted your bail out cylinder is 13 cu ft. These units are intended for nondecompression diving.

I love that SAC rate is no longer an issue, and gas consumption is independant of depth.

[sarafina]

Originally Posted by Matt sachs

DiveNewswire#
What do you think?

Re: Rebreathers (NOT) for Beginners ?

[downunder]

Originally Posted by sarafina

Re: Rebreathers (NOT) for Beginners ?

Definitely. Scary

[Matt sachs]

Its definetly going to be interesting to see how the training is going to take someone that has never been on scuba and put them on a RB.
I expect some push back from those that know about RB's(I have pushed back alot too) I have a lot of respect for the guy in charge. He assures me that once I see the changes in the equipment and the extent of the training I will change my mind.
I'm not singing the praises of the course yet, but I am going in with an open mind.

[s/v Beth]

I have been following RB's for about 6 years now. Still to dangerous IMHO. But they are getting safer, but it has been slow and painful. Will they take over diving? yes- but perhaps not in my lifetime.

[bobconnie]

Im so Old, That They called Seals. UDT ! (1955) We used RB,s of the 2nd world war era, and they had there use's, but the restrictions on depth, and the possibilty of passing out and dying, put them on my SHORT List LOL great to not have any bubbles, but I just can't see any great use for them ? I can still free dive deeper then you can go with any RB I ever used ! I can ck the set of my anchor most of the time with fins and a face plate, sure don't need to spend 6 or 7 grand for a RB and thas the only thing I can think of to use one for ! Just my 2 cents Bob and Connie

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Matt sachs

Its definetly going to be interesting to see how the training is going to take someone that has never been on scuba and put them on a RB.
I expect some push back from those that know about RB's(I have pushed back alot too) I have a lot of respect for the guy in charge. He assures me that once I see the changes in the equipment and the extent of the training I will change my mind.
I'm not singing the praises of the course yet, but I am going in with an open mind.

There have been quite a few posters with diving experience give some good advise in this thread.

(I have a lot of respect for the guy in charge) Good salesman I would say. Just Be Aware (not saying your instructor is not good). I was bought up to learn basics well first and then progress starting with freediving. I see people that can hardly swim diving thesedays.

Why sell SCUBA gear/course if can sell RB gear/course.

As an experienced instructor/dive supervisor bought up when practical was as important if not more than technical (theory) aspects of diving. Can’t say I like the way the dive training industry has headed in last couple of decades under the influence of technical, business (profit) models. Simply more technical, more money. If you have the money you can be a divemaster/instructor in no time flat despite very little real world experience. Definitely cheaper to teach theory than spend time in the water.

Perhaps I am just a dinosaur.

I just hope you can and have SCUBA accreditation after your course. If you do turn out to be a keen diver will be a lot easier to find a buddy. Will be a lot less around with rebreathers to buddy up with I imagine.

Have a good course and hope you enjoy your diving.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by bobconnie

Im so Old, That They called Seals. UDT ! (1955) We used RB,s of the 2nd world war era, and they had there use's, but the restrictions on depth, and the possibilty of passing out and dying, put them on my SHORT List LOL great to not have any bubbles, but I just can't see any great use for them ? I can still free dive deeper then you can go with any RB I ever used ! I can ck the set of my anchor most of the time with fins and a face plate, sure don't need to spend 6 or 7 grand for a RB and thas the only thing I can think of to use one for ! Just my 2 cents Bob and Connie

Another old dinosaur

[sarafina]

The quality of training in general in another topic all on its own, but when I certified it was in a semester long course at college under an amazingly experienced instructor team. One of the guys, Bil, had one of the first dry suits, which I had TOTAL envy for ; -) He was an old school navy diver and said that rebreathers (at that time) were death traps for the typical diver. I am sure the new ones are better. But how MUCH better?

When the Spouse certified it was a coupla evening classes, a weekend day in the pool and then open water certification and he was out the door ready to go. Until he ran into me!

I took him back to the pool and ran him thru days of practice in the pool and then more days of practice in the open water before I took him out on a real dive. He did rescue dives and buddy breathing while completing tasks, treading on the surface in full gear until he was ready to drop. Before I fet he was *safe*. he bitched and moaned at the time but it stood him in good stead over the years when we were actively diving!

It was just scary how cavalier they were about the subject they were teaching...

[bobconnie]

Dino Yea !! I was a Mess cook at the Last Supper !! LOL Bob and Connie

[bobconnie]

Woops Downunder !! Sorry my CRS kucked in lol Bob and Connie

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by sarafina

The quality of training in general in another topic all on its own, but when I certified it was in a semester long course at college under an amazingly experienced instructor team. One of the guys, Bil, had one of the first dry suits, which I had TOTAL envy for ; -) He was an old school navy diver and said that rebreathers (at that time) were death traps for the typical diver. I am sure the new ones are better. But how MUCH better?

When the Spouse certified it was a coupla evening classes, a weekend day in the pool and then open water certification and he was out the door ready to go. Until he ran into me!

I took him back to the pool and ran him thru days of practice in the pool and then more days of practice in the open water before I took him out on a real dive. He did rescue dives and buddy breathing while completing tasks, treading on the surface in full gear until he was ready to drop. Before I fet he was *safe*. he bitched and moaned at the time but it stood him in good stead over the years when we were actively diving!

It was just scary how cavalier they were about the subject they were teaching...

I've seen SCUBA classes on a couple of head boats (the few times I dove on a head boat) and a couple of times saw students that could not even swim without a BC. I saw one student that was so out of shape that he couldn't get back on the boat with his tank on.

What you did for the other half is laudable and good on him for putting up with it.