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Old 07-08-2013, 14:23   #46
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Re: Plenty of Fish in the Sea?

If Japan continues to release radioactive water into the pacific, all the fish will be dead..so we better hurry up and catch them all now.

No question the 'first world' has been on an unsustainable path for some time.
Unfortunately history shows there is not a graceful end to explosive growth.
As things become so interdependant, it doesn't take much to create a collapse.
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Old 07-08-2013, 14:40   #47
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Re: Plenty of Fish in the Sea?

A lot of good fish stories here, so I will pass on one of mine. As a teenager in Florida in the mid-60's, I made money as a mate on a friend's red snapper boat. A 42' open stern, Carolina "V" hull with a 671, we would hit the Gulf Stream and fish the 100 fathom dropoff. In 3 days and 2 nights, we could get 2,000 lbs of good, red snapper, fishing 6 lines with electric reels. There were no limits then, so we filled our hold, but we only kept the larger fish. Those were the days of "depth recorders" not depth sounders. A rolling chart with the squiggly needle recording the bottom. We saved those noted with Loran A coordinates so we could return. About that time, the "roller net" was put into use. Dragged along the bottom with rollers on the bottom of the mouth of the net. Just a few years later, we could go out to the same places we fished, look at the bottom on a depth sounder, compare it back to the old chart rolls, and the bottom did not even resemble what it had been. The roller nets scraped the bottom flat, no place left for the fish to live. It took less than 10 years for the East Coast of Florida to be completely devoid of red snapper. Now, there is not a red snapper within 500 miles of the Florida Coast. No one bemoaned the loss except the small family fisherman who might have been a 2nd or 3rd generation snapper fisherman. No one else even noticed.
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Old 07-08-2013, 15:26   #48
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Re: Plenty of Fish in the Sea?

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Originally Posted by Cormorant View Post
We create weird imbalances, too. Like killing 100 million sharks a year allows the ray population to increase. (Sharks feed on rays.) The rays decimate shellfish populations. Hence, fewer clams and oysters. . . .
Classic 'trophic cascade'.


One of the scariest things I have heard about fish stocks recently is that the gene pool of North Sea cod has been skewed towards smaller fish, as the bigger ones are so regularly fished out. In other words, even if we let the stocks recover the gene pool is, for any practical time period at least, irreversibly changed for the worse.

Fish stocks are just another resource. Resource depletion, destruction of habitats, loss of wilderness, pollution and every other type of environmental damage are irrevocably linked with population growth. Even in the relatively short time I have been around, I have seen the population grow from under 6bn to over 7bn, and I see no signs that this growth rate will decrease in the near future. It is a shame that serious environmentalists often fail to confront population growth, as they see birth control as some sort of right-wing conspiracy against the poor. That so many people here see population growth as the primary danger to our environment and civilisation gives me hope. For politicians, though, population growth is an easy solution to delivering economic growth. Too few people question whether or not economic growth is really the key to all happiness, and watching the natural environment people enjoy being destroyed in the interests of 'the economy' is one of the saddest, most ironic things there is. Economic growth might deliver a shiny new plastic phone or a new car, but these things don't bring people nearly as much pleasure as enjoying the countryside, the coast or the sea - or they don't me at least...

To bring things back to sailing, Bernard Moitessier phrased his views on the mindless pursuit of economic growth and the 'monstrous' machine of industrial civilisation more elegantly than I can:

"everything beautiful and good that men have done they built with their dreams... but back there, the Monster has taken over for men, it dreams in our place."
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Old 07-08-2013, 15:53   #49
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Re: Plenty of Fish in the Sea?

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
If Japan continues to release radioactive water into the pacific, all the fish will be dead...
Nonsense! They'll all grow to Godzilla size. More food for everyone. Dig in!
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Old 07-08-2013, 16:09   #50
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Re: Plenty of Fish in the Sea?

I saw this bumper sticker while driving today:

Extinction Is Not Stewardship

It also had a reference to restoringeden.com, a religious ecological group. One of their mottos is "God's original plan was to hang out with a few naked vegetarians."

No matter what your religious or political views I do not understand why we cannot agree on preserving the environment.
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Old 11-08-2013, 23:07   #51
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Re: Plenty of Fish in the Sea?

I was snorkeling off a beach in Indonesia this weekend. Went about 100m offshore and then back and saw... 1 small flat fish. No minnows, despite the sea grass beds, no angels, nothing... pretty sad
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Old 12-08-2013, 01:45   #52
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In Indonesia they don't use hooks, nets or spears.
Dynamite is the preferred bait
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Old 12-08-2013, 01:53   #53
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Re: Plenty of Fish in the Sea?

Dynamite is good stuff, You get every thing with it, As per post 51, There is nothing left,
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Old 12-08-2013, 02:07   #54
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In Indonesia they never think about tomorrow,just the next feed.

The areas where it happens a lot has a monthly wage of about $70 usd!
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Old 12-08-2013, 02:44   #55
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Re: Plenty of Fish in the Sea?

Around the year 2000, Indonesians were getting $40-00 USD a Month,

$70-00, Their wages have near doubled, Aren't they lucky.

Its still Peanuts,
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Old 12-08-2013, 04:17   #56
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Thats for management.

They do it very tough in a lot of parts, it really is about the next meal for the family,not long term fish stocks and fishery management.
In Bali i saw several dump trucks full of massive tuna heads going to the tip,thousands of really massive fish wiped out on a big scale.
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Old 12-08-2013, 04:45   #57
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Re: Plenty of Fish in the Sea?

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Fish stocks are just another resource. Resource depletion, destruction of habitats, loss of wilderness, pollution and every other type of environmental damage are irrevocably linked with population growth. Even in the relatively short time I have been around, I have seen the population grow from under 6bn to over 7bn, and I see no signs that this growth rate will decrease in the near future. It is a shame that serious environmentalists often fail to confront population growth, as they see birth control as some sort of right-wing conspiracy against the poor. That so many people here see population growth as the primary danger to our environment and civilisation gives me hope. For politicians, though, population growth is an easy solution to delivering economic growth. Too few people question whether or not economic growth is really the key to all happiness, and watching the natural environment people enjoy being destroyed in the interests of 'the economy' is one of the saddest, most ironic things there is. Economic growth might deliver a shiny new plastic phone or a new car, but these things don't bring people nearly as much pleasure as enjoying the countryside, the coast or the sea - or they don't me at least...
population control is an extremely controversial subject. Firstly it unfairly benefits the "first world" , where the replacement rate is already negative, and where wealth and resources are concentrated. It has significant connotations for developing nations , where labour is a prime resource and often the only one.

We can easily feed the expected population growth to 2050 and the UN expects the replacement rate to become negative by 2100, ( and some researchers say from 2050). This can be done by a switch to vegetarian diets, removing food waste , food tarifs and price supports and opening western markets to developing world produce.

Of course "will it be done" , thats another thing entirely, austerity is something , "other people' do, and I mean austerity in the general sense. NIMBY is the prevalent force here.

SO , we will continue to misuse food production, concentrate it in the hands of a few , until events force us to comply with sensible actions. Humans never do anything right the first time.

dave
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Old 12-08-2013, 07:33   #58
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Re: Plenty of Fish in the Sea?

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I was snorkeling off a beach in Indonesia this weekend. Went about 100m offshore and then back and saw... 1 small flat fish. No minnows, despite the sea grass beds, no angels, nothing... pretty sad
Indonesia sounds tropical waters to me. Very low nutrient content hence not too much fish. You want to dive in waters where cold arctic/antarctic currents penetrate into warmer masses of oceans. There is fish.

We sometimes call places like FP or Indonesia 'depleted' but the fact is they were never as full of fish as more temperate waters.

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Old 12-08-2013, 17:32   #59
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30deg Celsius in winter in Indo, just beautiful
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Old 12-08-2013, 20:41   #60
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Re: Plenty of Fish in the Sea?

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30deg Celsius in winter in Indo, just beautiful
Winter?... where's my dictionary again...
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