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Old 31-03-2013, 13:57   #31
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Re: Increasing race participation

In reading this, I was reminded of my own personal participation(s). We only raced our C22 in the mid-late 80s three times, in a yearly race on our summer lake. No other racing was available there. Still isn't. It was fun, but we knew we knew nothing. In 1987 we bought a C25 and never raced it until we bought our current C34 in 1998. When I was out one day just watching a race, the skippers on "our" boats told me to just join in even though I hadn't paid the entry fee and was singlehanding! Right after the finish, one of "our skippers" got blocked by someone who didn't clear the finish line and T boned me, although at very low speed. His comment? "I'll pay to fix it, I'll pay to fix it!!!" RIGHT answer, but a little MarineTex went a long way! I'd been cruising these waters for many years, but found that there was an allure to putting your boat where it needed to be WHEN it needed to be there. Call it performance sailing??? I don't know... In 1999 I joined the National Regatta - we are fortunate that there are always enough boats of our type to have individual one design class starts in our own races and other summer and winter series races here on The Bay. After my expereince in the first set of three days of racing, I wrote an article "What It Looks Like From the Back of the Pack." A year or so later an old friend and I got back in touch and we simply sailed together every Friday, summer and winter. Seven years later someone else was at the back of the pack.

We have a Racing Division and a separate Cruising Division. They wouldn't give me a handicap for my outboard and the BBQ!

My experience is that you can make races competitive if you don't race with the hardcore racers, especially at first. After that, it's really up to your own commitment in time, energy and reading the Rules. One design racing makes a LOT of sense, but only if you have the core group of boats. After that, it's fairness in the PHRF ratings. Our "racers" have tweaked the ratings over the past 25 years to make boat features (folding props, limited headsail sizes, no extoic materials for sails) pretty even and fair.

That said, another C34 fleet back east has the very same # of boats and has NEVER raced. Go figure. Maybe out consistent winds makes it easier to have fun races, rather than hoping any given weekend once a month MIGHT have some air.

It's like Internet advice: you can make it available, but you can't make 'em read it.

Good luck.

PS - Beer can races are very popular here, too. Read Latitude 38's Beer Can Racing Tips - fun stuff.
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Old 31-03-2013, 14:28   #32
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Re: Increasing race participation

Several thoughts here:
First is to "Lake-Effect"- may want to tell your skipper with the jammed jib sheet that he would not have had to cut his jibsheet if he simply wound it counterclockwise then brought it to another winch and then wound the hell out of it using a winch handle it would have become free. This has always worked for me and that does occur frequently with someone less experienced on a winch. Sounds like he assumed some of the responsibility in having to cut his own sheet.
Also to "Randyour3" well said and I agree entirely with your closing statement.
You will learn, if you stick with it long enough, that in the sport of racing sailboats it is not in winning but in doing the best you can. I have raced sailboats for over 30 years and have my share of victories however some of my fondest memories are not in the races I won but in the ones that I learned the most.
You also always have to sail by the rules and it is a burden to learn them however a necessity.
A very famous sailor once said "if in winning a race I lose the respect of my competitors, then I have not really won".
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Old 31-03-2013, 17:52   #33
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Re: Increasing race participation

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Originally Posted by caradow View Post
A very famous sailor once said "if in winning a race I lose the respect of my competitors, then I have not really won".
Some of the most respected sailors I know are not the perennial winners or the most talented but the sailors who always manage to have a crew, sail most every race, in all conditions, season after season even though finishing in the money is the rarest of events. These are the sailors who sail to test there own mettle, for the sport and camaraderie which comes after. It's not about winning for them, it's about the journey. It's these sailors who teach what is important in life. To be the best we can be...be humble and be willing to learn...If you don't try, you never will....You can dumb the game down but what have you really accomplished? Softball in a hardball world....
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Old 31-03-2013, 21:07   #34
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Re: Increasing race participation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post

In the knife thread, one comment was from a captain who related how he had to cut a jibsheet free during a race after a crewmember got it jammed on a winch during a tack. Said captain then informed offending crewmember that he now owed for a new jibsheet. Yeah, that sort of camaraderie really makes me want to race...
I'm glad you brought that up, and couldnt be at a better time..
I was the one that wrote that clip.............
and there are a couple of points to bring up dealing with the mentality of the Racer and the cruiser..

First off, and not defending myself but, If its race day, and you come aboard my First 42 and tell me you have experance as a grinder, I expect you to know not to do an overwrap.. Its not acceptable, no way, no how, and if you do it, you pay for it, ....
as for running a line to another winch to pull it lose.. not a chance.. those are Lewmar 53s on a self tailer with 1/2 inch line..

Now what I've been waiting for.. when Cruising.. and the **** hits the fan, and a squal backwinds the sails and puts your spreaders in the water, Are you going to start trying to figure out how to let the sails out or relieve the preasure pushing youi under... think fast now, really fast... Oh, OH.. to late
you dont have time to think..
when it comes time to react, you have to let the instink (sp) take over, you have to know what to do without thinking.. thats what racing does for you..

Now the rest of the story, and those from the area will know where I speak of.. The Race I was doing was the Vallejo 1-2 on the return leg.. tacking off the entrance of the napa river and headed north on a port tack..
About 50 yards off the break wall and moving about 10 knots behind Mare Island when I yelled prepair to tack.. the grinder yelled overwrap... without thinking, grabbed the knife and slit the line... tacked... now with the line free, and no loss of time, we rigged another sheet..

and for paying for the line, he did, and did with a smile on his face..

Again I say, the best experance you could ever have for cruising is to spend a season crewing on a race boat..
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:50   #35
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Re: Increasing race participation

Fair play if the crew was happy to put hand in pocket - I guess he knew the rules ahead of time?

Certainly if the expectation came as a surprise to me the reaction would be different to a smile. Life too short to put up with stuff like that probably one of the reasons why I am not racing!
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:11   #36
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Re: Increasing race participation

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Fair play if the crew was happy to put hand in pocket - I guess he knew the rules ahead of time?

Certainly if the expectation came as a surprise to me the reaction would be different to a smile. Life too short to put up with stuff like that probably one of the reasons why I am not racing!
In many of the race venues ive been involved , the boat , durring race season, becomes the property of the race team, the team buys the sails, the rigging, takes part in maintaince issues and is an equal part in wins and losses.
Its team effort, and more than once, ive dug into my pockets to purchase new sail for boat i was crewing on for the season...and if i were to damage something on the boat due to my lack of doing the task properly, i would expect to cover the cost.....

Now here is something to ponder alittle... Im in the process of buying Columbia 5.5 for the purpose of racing, putting together quality teem ... BUT, I WONT BE PART OF THE ON WATER RACE TEAM... My part will be that of the boat owner.. i will be involved, Just not racing the boat..
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:46   #37
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Re: Increasing race participation

WOW!!!
where have you been all my life???
buying equipment for boats that you race on?
well that is absolutely fantastic!
I can't tell you how many winch handles my various crews have lost overboard, how many sails have been poked thru the spreader tips, how many spinnakers shredded, how many spinnaker poles broken in broaches etc.etc. and just think at awards ceremony I let them go up and get the trophies to keep.
You would be a crew from heaven especially with your new deal that you asked Old Jersey to ponder.
Are you serious about buying a race boat but not race on it?
To me that would be like having a beautiful woman and ask someone else to "take care" of her for you.......
Please explain what you would be getting out of such an arrangement.
I guess next would be Race Horses, a Formula 1, or hell even an AC boat.
This really puzzles me unless you have the deep pockets of someone like George David.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:24   #38
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Re: Increasing race participation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
- put off by some of the more hardcore racers, captains that yell, protests etc
- haven't yet found a fleet that seemed low-key and more fun-oriented
Wot he said ^^^ The racing sailors in this area are nice enough people on land, but put them in a race and they suddenly become rabid, frothing-at-the-mouth, prepare-to-ram pirates. They would gladly t-bone your boat trying to gain half a length and would brag about it later. Who needs it?
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:27   #39
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Re: Increasing race participation

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Originally Posted by Randyonr3 View Post
I'm glad you brought that up, and couldnt be at a better time..
I was the one that wrote that clip.............
and there are a couple of points to bring up dealing with the mentality of the Racer and the cruiser..

First off, and not defending myself but, If its race day, and you come aboard my First 42 and tell me you have experance as a grinder, I expect you to know not to do an overwrap.. Its not acceptable, no way, no how, and if you do it, you pay for it, ....
as for running a line to another winch to pull it lose.. not a chance.. those are Lewmar 53s on a self tailer with 1/2 inch line..

Now what I've been waiting for.. when Cruising.. and the **** hits the fan, and a squal backwinds the sails and puts your spreaders in the water, Are you going to start trying to figure out how to let the sails out or relieve the preasure pushing youi under... think fast now, really fast... Oh, OH.. to late
you dont have time to think..
when it comes time to react, you have to let the instink (sp) take over, you have to know what to do without thinking.. thats what racing does for you..

Now the rest of the story, and those from the area will know where I speak of.. The Race I was doing was the Vallejo 1-2 on the return leg.. tacking off the entrance of the napa river and headed north on a port tack..
About 50 yards off the break wall and moving about 10 knots behind Mare Island when I yelled prepair to tack.. the grinder yelled overwrap... without thinking, grabbed the knife and slit the line... tacked... now with the line free, and no loss of time, we rigged another sheet..

and for paying for the line, he did, and did with a smile on his face..

Again I say, the best experance you could ever have for cruising is to spend a season crewing on a race boat..
Will you get monetary compensation for having a winning boat? Or will you have sponsors to pay money to advertise? Just trying to learn the scope of this race boat.
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Old 01-04-2013, 15:02   #40
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Re: Increasing race participation

Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisM View Post
Wot he said ^^^ The racing sailors in this area are nice enough people on land, but put them in a race and they suddenly become rabid, frothing-at-the-mouth, prepare-to-ram pirates. They would gladly t-bone your boat trying to gain half a length and would brag about it later. Who needs it?

Dennis
I agree it might seem like a bunch of bumper boats to the unknowing person but to one that knows racing, the meaning of the different flags, the times of the horns and their meaning, the race is a well orchestrated dance amoung boats and their crews..
the hi intence attitude is normal and reactions are fast..the idea is to act within a fixed set of parameters where the win will go to team to make the least mistakes... Most often the first place boat goes to the team that works the best together..
In our spring series, we have over 40 boats in seven different devisions and never a game of bumper boats..

Its like any other sport... not knowing the rules or how the game is played can be overwhelming, just imagine what you would think if you didnt know or had not seen a football game, youd think everybody was out to kill each other.. same with sailboat racing, once you know the rules and understand what is going on, you'll understand the dance
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Old 01-04-2013, 15:21   #41
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Re: Increasing race participation

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Will you get monetary compensation for having a winning boat? Or will you have sponsors to pay money to advertise? Just trying to learn the scope of this race boat.

Wont get any money back to speak of, BUT it is a sport I injoy, and love to take part in, and at my age, I just feel the boat would be better crewed by a younger crew..
I think its the satisfaction knowing I built a winning combination in boat and crew..
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:23   #42
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Re: Increasing race participation

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Originally Posted by Randyonr3 View Post
In many of the race venues ive been involved , the boat , durring race season, becomes the property of the race team, the team buys the sails, the rigging, takes part in maintaince issues and is an equal part in wins and losses.
All that does make sense , not being a racer that approach never occured to me . In that case "break it - you pay for it" makes perfect sense (and is of course known about in advance!).
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