Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-10-2014, 20:50   #16
Registered User
 
zboss's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a boat
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 3,425
Re: Honda 2000 and a dive compressor?

Or find another boat that likes diving and has another Honda generator and hook them together for your 30 amps... ahem...we will be in the Abacos this winter... ::cough::::cough::
__________________

__________________
zboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2014, 21:18   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mackay,QLD, Australia
Boat: planning a approx 45ft cat
Posts: 3,651
Images: 3
Re: Honda 2000 and a dive compressor?

You can yust forget the Honda 2000. You just need to get a petrol motor powered compressor.

Cheers
__________________

__________________
downunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2014, 22:41   #18
Marine Service Provider
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Paz, Mexico
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,653
Re: Honda 2000 and a dive compressor?

Hmmmm....first we designed our water maker to run on the Honda 2000...so it looks like our next product should be a dive compressor that would also run on the Honda 2000, which means keeping to a 1.0Hp motor using 9.3A at 120v....

We have the MaxAir35 and it uses a Honda 5.0Hp motor....but man do we love that thing. My way to apologize to the anchorage for filling tanks was to announce over the VHF free tank fills for those "bothered" by the noise...always made lots of friends that way....
__________________
Rich Boren Goodbye Morro Bay...Hello La Paz, Mexico and the owner of:
Cruise RO Water High Output Water
Technautic CoolBlue Refrigeration
SV THIRD DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2014, 23:29   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mackay,QLD, Australia
Boat: planning a approx 45ft cat
Posts: 3,651
Images: 3
Re: Honda 2000 and a dive compressor?

Just checked out the AIRMAX . Is it a rebaged Bauer Jnr??
__________________
downunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2014, 22:50   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 676
Re: Honda 2000 and a dive compressor?

Just finished researching running either the Bauer electric motor Junior or Poisidon compressors with the Honda 2000. The definite answer is no, one Honda will not get it started nor run it, BUT 2 Honda's piggybacked certainly will.

That looks attractive to us for several reasons;

1. They will augment the substantial solar installation for our electric bluewater cat by using a larger capacity battery charger to really pump the amps into the LiFePO4 bank in a short time when the sun is obscurred.
2. Can run AC higher capacity watermaker at same time.
3. Can run Aircon when in equatorial zones > high temp & humidity.
4. Can run electric propulsion for extended time when becalmed.
5. Redundancy. Honda's are really reliable, but when you are out in the boonies, having the backup is comforting.
6. Avoids the issues of a diesel genset ie weight, cost, maintenance, vibration etc.

Seems like a reasonable strategy to me.
__________________
BigBeakie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2014, 22:55   #21
Registered User
 
Livia's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Boat: Currently boatless
Posts: 637
Re: Honda 2000 and a dive compressor?

Really interesting ideas, good info. Thank you everyone.

And yes Rich, find one to sell that will fill a tank (even not completely full) from the Honda - and we love our CruiseRO watermaker!
Livia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2014, 23:00   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mackay,QLD, Australia
Boat: planning a approx 45ft cat
Posts: 3,651
Images: 3
Re: Honda 2000 and a dive compressor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeakie View Post
Just finished researching running either the Bauer electric motor Junior or Poisidon compressors with the Honda 2000. The definite answer is no, one Honda will not get it started nor run it, BUT 2 Honda's piggybacked certainly will.

That looks attractive to us for several reasons;

1. They will augment the substantial solar installation for our electric bluewater cat by using a larger capacity battery charger to really pump the amps into the LiFePO4 bank in a short time when the sun is obscurred.
2. Can run AC higher capacity watermaker at same time.
3. Can run Aircon when in equatorial zones > high temp & humidity.
4. Can run electric propulsion for extended time when becalmed.
5. Redundancy. Honda's are really reliable, but when you are out in the boonies, having the backup is comforting.
6. Avoids the issues of a diesel genset ie weight, cost, maintenance, vibration etc.

Seems like a reasonable strategy to me.
Rob,

Did you physically see the two Honda's start a Bauer Jnr? Not sure carrying 2xHondas which you have to pull on deck to run is the best way. I still believe a heavier 1500rpm diesel genset like Northern Lights is way to go.

Have you seen the genset installations in the Antares as an option.
__________________
downunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2014, 23:35   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 676
Re: Honda 2000 and a dive compressor?

Hiya Downunder,

Yep, I did see it run, and no soft start required either. Also spoke to a diver who ran them almost continuously in the same application for filling many tanks in large diving group.

Can you expand on what your reservations would be using the 2 Honda's? I'm looking for the fly in the ointment, because in many respects it seems too good to be true. A fraction of the weight and cost and virtually maintenance free.

Considering we will not have diesel engines, and will have petrol outboard, why have another fuel just for the genny?

I also have been doing some homework on availability of diesel in the weird and wonderful places north and east of Oz where we want to go for diving, and in those remote areas/islands I hear there is petrol available, but no diesel. Sure, we could lug around a ton of diesel if we had diesel engines, but there goes your light wind sailing performance.

So considering the requirement for generator is fairly minimal if we have adequate solar, what is the strong argument for the diesel generator?
__________________
BigBeakie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2014, 01:06   #24
Marine Service Provider
 
rcontrera's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 49
Re: Honda 2000 and a dive compressor?

The fly in the ointment? The little Bauer Junior II and the Coltri MCH6 are both designed to be run on 7KW gen sets as a minimum. Since those Honda 2000 generators are rated for 1600 watts, then that means more than four of those machines to get the right power. Less and you may be going through capacitors. I had one customer that went through six starting capacitors on his motor in a three month period on a 5 kw gen set.

Yes ... it can be done. Will you have problems? Maybe.
__________________
Ray Contreras
CompressorStuff

rcontrera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2014, 01:21   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 676
Re: Honda 2000 and a dive compressor?

I'm assuming you are concerned about the amp draw on startup for the compressor motor? Because you don't need 7KVA for the running load, that is only 2.2kW. Although the Honda EU2000 is rated at 1.65kW, that is a conservative rating. They will actually run all day at 2kW, so the 2 of them easily handle the 2.2kW load of the compressor. At the top of fill, the load will increase, but not beyond the Honda's output.

There is always a soft start available to absorb the current spike required if the compressor capacitor will not cope with the sub second spike duration.
__________________
BigBeakie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2014, 01:01   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mackay,QLD, Australia
Boat: planning a approx 45ft cat
Posts: 3,651
Images: 3
Re: Honda 2000 and a dive compressor?

Big Breakie,

Thats interesting that you have seen it working with 2x Hondas presumably in Sydney. Must have had a soft start setup as that where the problem would be.

Certainly The Bauer distributers such as Ray Conteras above always say you need a 7kw genset for a Bauer Jnr although I suspect with soft start and something such as a decent sized Vitron inverter charger with boost you could get away with a 5kw diesel.

I did not realise you were going petrol outboards. I was considering you would have had diesel genset with electric drive.

I know it is fairly easy to put 1200l + of diesel into the vessel you are considering which would mean you wouldn't need to be chasing fuel in the remote regions. If the tanks are build in at manufacture there is no need to keep them full in areas where fuel is readily available. Many Crowther cats built for remote cruising have at least that tankage. I yust don't like the idea of having to pull/lug 2 gensets and a compressor out on deck every time to fill tanks as I expect to be doing plenty of diving.

Having a diesel genset means you can go for a larger cheaper capacity AC water maker such as a CRUISERO rather than a more expensive Spectra.

That being my preference being made aware that it can be done using 2 Hondas is interesting. Can you post a video showing a start up of a Bauer Jnr.

cheers
__________________
downunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2014, 02:31   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 676
Re: Honda 2000 and a dive compressor?

Hi Downunder,

I am heading over to a big Honda dealer to try something when I get all the cats herded together. I have to borrow a Bauer Junior & take it across to the Honda dealer and then try it with & without soft start, and do some measurements. I'm not sure what was involved in the setup I saw, so I will sort out the details and go try it myself, just to be sure.

I take onboard Ray's point about burning capacitors. It may start and run it, but blow multiple capacitors, so I would like to know that beforehand. As I understand it, the 7KVA spec for the generator is to handle the sub second spike. And as I understand it from the Honda dealer, not all generators are created equal, but the piggyback Honda EU2000i's will cope with a sub second 7kW load. We shall see.

I am also taking an IR gun to measure the temps of the Bauer Junior capacitors and compare it to the temp running off mains power. That should tell the tale.

Anything else I should think of, or try, while I'm at it?

And no, NOT considering petrol outboards on the FF46, no way! The plan is still electric shaft drives for ships propulsion. I was referring to the tender outboard, a 2 stroke Yammie.

The 2 Honda's will live in the forward deck locker for ventilation & be wired through to the big battery charger & the Bauer which lives in the aft locker (to fill station in cockpit) on a shelf with removeable snorkel on the intake.

IF this all works according to plan, then no need for diesel genset or carting around 1,200 kg of diesel with the adverse impact on light air performance
__________________
BigBeakie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2014, 14:19   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 676
Re: Honda 2000 and a dive compressor?

I can personally confirm that the 2 piggybacked Honda 20i's will not quite start and get running a Bauer Poisidon PE100 dive compressor, without a soft start device.

It was very close however. It did start the compressor and run it for about 3 seconds, but the Hondas could not keep up the high current for long enough to get over the hump, so the soft start is essential.

The Honda tech guy confirmed it was very close to working, and is very confident from his past experience, that the soft start device will solve the start up issue.

I'm trying to get a "loaner" soft start thingy to try it again.....
__________________
BigBeakie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2014, 15:51   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Caribbean
Boat: Oyster 66
Posts: 973
Re: Honda 2000 and a dive compressor?

The smallest powered Bauer takes a 1.5kw motor. If you pulled off the motor and replaced it with a 3 phase motor and bought a 1 to 3 phase inverter to drive it then your peak current draw might be close to 2kw, so you might get the genset to work. Without the soft start capability of the inverter you will need to reckon on about 3x the motor's nominal rating for your supply. A bit less if you start without pressure. Other than that you could get the petrol powered compressor or a bigger genset or a bigger boat single phase inverter to drive the compressor. If you went for a Coltri, they do a 3 phase 3kw model of their basic compressor, so that's another option with a little less messing around. You would need to give it maybe 3-4kw though and buy a motor inverter (also known as a variable speed drive controller - VSD).
__________________
poiu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2014, 15:58   #30
Registered User
 
travellerw's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Martinique
Boat: Fortuna Island Spirit 40
Posts: 1,710
Re: Honda 2000 and a dive compressor?

A general rule in the industry (not always correct though) is any electric motor will take 1.5 times the running amps to start. This assumes no load and just the motor getting the stator spinning. Have a load attached and that number can go to 2 or 3 times the running amps. Soft start caps can bring this back down, but will never bring it back to the running amps number.

Just an FYI when we are sizing stuff..
__________________

__________________
travellerw is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
compressor, honda

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Want To Buy: Seeking dive compressor and tanks CR, PAN or Salvador MikeCormier Classifieds Archive 0 29-06-2012 16:20
For Sale: Dive Compressor - Bauer Junior II AllezCat Classifieds Archive 20 24-02-2011 16:49
Want To Buy: Dive Compressor k.tatarow Classifieds Archive 0 15-02-2011 08:19
Dive Compressor Rix SA-6 venturini Classifieds Archive 2 23-01-2009 15:14
Dive compressor Talbot Fishing, Recreation & Fun 1 10-08-2004 21:17



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:54.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.