Visit our Popular Forums

james247 · 08-12-2017, 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by JanetGroene

I am SO disappointed at this movie. I expected it to be a fitting tribute to the hundreds of British boat owners (men, women and kids) who risked all to to evacuate more than 300,000 men from France. One yachtsmen was featured in a sub plot, and a scattering of boats showed up at the end but the film was a head-pounding hodgepodge of battle scenes with no historical context. Wait for the DVD, fast forward through the repetitive battle scenes and save your money on the theater popcorn. The whole British boating community deserves an apology.

I think the story of the bravery of the boaties is well documented and equally know. I enjoyed the movie as it presented a different perspective. The desperate reality of the men on the beaches. I think it was an untold story equally deserving exposure. We are so used to the stories where we sing the anthems of the English and Americans. This told of a disastrous military campaign which all but succeeded in changing modern history. God bless the men on the beach who lay there still today.

james247 · 08-12-2017, 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I agree about the heros! And it probably saved the British an invasion and a few years (anyway) of Nazi occupation -- a very good thing.

But I don't think what happened in Dunkirk has anything to do with the "freedom we enjoy". The outcome of the war was not affected in the slightest. In fact, the war may have been prolonged by a year due to what happened at Dunkirk.

That's because after Dunkirk, the Brits stopped fighting the Germans on the ground on any large scale until D-Day, which allowed the Germans to concentrate practically all their effort on the Eastern Front, without committing forces to an invasion of Britain. Don't forget we took a four year holiday from the war from June 1940 to June 1944, aside from minor actions in North Africa done only for propaganda purposes. Thus freed of major commitments in the West, the Germans came close to knocking the Soviets out in December, 1941, and managed to keep it a close fight until the autumn of 1943 despite immense advantages of the Soviets in manpower and war production capacity.

If the BEF had been destroyed at Dunkirk, the Germans would never have been able to resist the temptation to go on and invade Britain, and would have tied down substantial forces in Britain for a long time, considerably weakening the Nazi blow in Operation Barbarossa. Of course we could speculate that in that case Barbarossa might never have happened, but I really doubt it -- Hitler's whole purpose in starting the war was Lebensraum in the East, and raw materials, especially, oil. The Nazi economy had a serious problem with raw materials which the Nazis could not solve in the usual manner of buying them, like the Japanese did. About which see:

WAIS - World Association for International Studies

I believe without the troops from Dunkirk there may have not been a d day. Dunkirk was an important and desperate recovery.

**Dockhead** · 08-12-2017, 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by james247

I believe without the troops from Dunkirk there may have not been a d day. Dunkirk was an important and desperate recovery.

I agree of course that Dunkirk probably kept the Nazis out of Britain -- a very, very good thing. But D Day itself did not affect the outcome of the war -- the Germans had already lost by that time.

svrevelations · 08-12-2017, 03:11

No movie can EVER do justice to what happened at Dunkirk - neither can it tell the thousands of stories within that event. None the less, despite a couple of non plausible scenes, we really enjoyed the movie. It showed a small snippet of what happened, it covered a broad spectrum of emotions, deeds and actions - the photography was good, especially the aerial shoots. Unless you are into the meaningless rubbish movies floating around, it is most certainly one of the better movies to be released in recent time.

james247 · 08-12-2017, 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dockhead

All true!

But it is also true that the Soviets were the ones that, in the end, did the real fighting. As Meatservo correctly stated, 93% of German casualties were incurred in fighting with Soviet forces -- according to the Germans' own figures (and the real percentage is probably higher due to high numbers of MIAs on the Eastern Front) . The Western Front was a minor sideshow, compared to the big war, biggest in all of human history, fought between 1941 and 1945 between Germans and Soviets, with minor participation of others like Romanians.

At least 11 million Soviet soldiers were killed! Taking about 5 million German soldiers with them. And millions of civilians on both sides.

The way we learn WW2 history in American schools hugely exaggerates the importance of our role (in the "European Theatre", anyway - we WERE the main combatant in the Pacific, of course).

The politics of ww2 were very complex and the ramifications only now being unwound. Had the USA not had an isolationist approach from the outset WW2 may have played out vastly differently.
Trump is taking USA back to isolationism. I wonder where this will lead.

valhalla360 · 09-12-2017, 01:00

The movie was a cluttered mess. They did a horrible job relating the story an what was happening.

44'cruisingcat · 31-12-2017, 23:16

Watched it last night. For film making, an incredible achievement. They actually managed to make a fighter dogfight boring.

Someone who didn't know the reality would come away thinking a hundred or so cowardly soldiers were rescued by a dozen or so small craft and a couple of small ships, while under attack from a half dozen or so aircraft.

And apparently a Spitfire flies better when it's engine has stopped than when it's running.

An absolutely appalling film.

El Pinguino · 31-12-2017, 23:21

Watched it at 40,000 feet a few weeks ago...... I am really glad that I hadn't paid money to see it.........

earlgray · 01-01-2018, 04:33

I just can say...Stupid Hitler.

robert sailor · 01-01-2018, 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by meatservo

America, Russia, England, Australia, and France saved the world from hitler...

93% of German casualties, however, were were sustained from the russians...

meatservo

Where was Canada on your list? Seems more than 40% of our eligible male population enlisted during that war.

Kalinka1 · 01-01-2018, 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Where was Canada on your list? Seems more than 40% of our eligible male population enlisted during that war.

Usually right in the middle of it. Advanced further than any others on D Day. A Lot of Canadian Women were also in uniform. Any how liked the original movie not so much the new one. Happy New Year one and all

**boatman61** · 01-01-2018, 05:43

Yeah.. I can't see France's proud and vaunted military collapsing in just 6 weeks having anything to do with things.

meatservo · 06-01-2018, 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Where was Canada on your list? Seems more than 40% of our eligible male population enlisted during that war.

With all due respect, I thought I had included Canada. When I flew in Afghanistan, their callsign was Molson!

No disrespect intended, "OH CANADA"!

meatservo