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capn_billl · 25-10-2010, 10:31

They are in fact as accurate as a short description can make them. The first was in the local newspaper, the second my own experience. Drinking laws are not the only laws so abused. Since the days of the drive 55 most US law enforcement depts. have relied upon selective enforcement as a method of "revenue enhancement". Not the best setup for fair "rule of law".

**hummingway** · 25-10-2010, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by GordMay

Were any of your own examples of unreasonable enforcement fully accurate, they would illustrate why our laws have to be enforced as written. Seldom do enforcement officials exhibit “Solomonic” wisdom.

I believe this will be tested in BC with a new law that allows police to impose a 3 day driving ban and a $200 fine for blowing betweem .05 and .08. The police officer is now not only enforcement but also judge. I expect that we will see some challenges to this law. Over .08 and you still get your day in court. Lawyers seem to have success with challenges to evidence and procedure in DUI in this province which makes you wonder about the wisdom of law makers as well.

delmarrey · 25-10-2010, 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by capn_billl

They are in fact as accurate as a short description can make them. The first was in the local newspaper, the second my own experience. Drinking laws are not the only laws so abused. Since the days of the drive 55 most US law enforcement depts. have relied upon selective enforcement as a method of "revenue enhancement". Not the best setup for fair "rule of law".

As well here in Washington, we now have electronic surveillance which can honor you a traffic ticket at our local intersections.
And you have to be doing 10MPH over the limit to get pulled over since it's not worth their time to get you for any less. And they say they have no quotas until they come out in force at the end of the month(s).

stumblingalong · 05-01-2011, 01:50

Wow...no drinking on the boat seems to be the gist here...not while navigating...but I've always felt perfectly safe to tip a few on the hook, a mooring, or tied to the pier. Is that generally recognized as irresponsible? Hmmmm...what's this world coming to....

MarkJ · 05-01-2011, 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by stumblingalong

Wow...no drinking on the boat seems to be the gist here...not while navigating.......

I drink while navigating. Not over.05, but I certainly have a few beers during sundowners no matter where I am. I don't during bad weather, but the rest of the time the bar is open.

If I die at the helm holding a beer heading into the sunset, well, I can think of worse ways to go.

**boatman61** · 05-01-2011, 06:18

If your BAC is not around 40%B-60%A your a sad sick sailor.....HIC'

**David M** · 05-01-2011, 06:20

I think it's nuts to have any alcohol in you when you are responsible for the lives of others. Would you be okay with the surgeon operating on you to be at 0.07 BAL?

Also if and when an accident or injury occurs, in court the fact that you were drinking at all will be counted against you in the eyes of the jurors or the judge.

Liam Wald · 05-01-2011, 07:04

I do not believe that alcohol at any level is a good idea when skippering a boat. Even if the level is low it causes people to...

1) Over estimate their ability
2) Over look critical information
3) Delay taking nessecary action
4) Reduce critical thinking and problem solving ability
5) Reduce physical reaction time (impared motor skills)
6) Impare memory function and situational awareness

Can anyone name a sport, job, or activity in which drinking makes people perform better? (Vomiting and bleeding don't count).

Liam Wald · 05-01-2011, 07:07

MarkJ,
I generally aree with you... however.
If you die at the helm with a beer in your hand going into the sunset that is probably just fine as long as you don't take someone with you who wants to live another day!

**boatman61** · 05-01-2011, 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam Wald

I do not believe that alcohol at any level is a good idea when skippering a boat. Even if the level is low it causes people to...

1) Over estimate their ability
2) Over look critical information
3) Delay taking nessecary action
4) Reduce critical thinking and problem solving ability
5) Reduce physical reaction time (impared motor skills)
6) Impare memory function and situational awareness

Can anyone name a sport, job, or activity in which drinking makes people perform better? (Vomiting and bleeding don't count).

Darts.....

the more they drinks the better they get it seems

Liam Wald · 05-01-2011, 07:13

Stublingalong,
I don't have a problem with drinking tied to the pier or aslip in the harbor. But in my opinion on the hook is still underway, just temporarily stopped. There ahve been too many times that I have had to pull up anchor and go before I planned to due to weather.
It is really hard to plan to set aside 10-12 hours to work off either being drunk or a hangover.

Unicorn Dreams · 05-01-2011, 07:44

Tied up to a dock is temporarily stopped. It's a lot quicker to get ynderway from a dock than at anchor. unless you just cut your anchor chain. Of course, cutting 4-6 dock lines would be faster than byeaking out the bolt cutters.

Take the key out of the ignition, that;s the way most LEO's get people for drunl driving. The same goes for boaters.

My boat is my home, so I can drink in it as long as I'm stationary.

**boatman61** · 05-01-2011, 07:59

LOL..... here we go here we go.....
People with low tolerance levels making judgements on folk with high tolerance levels.... a variation on the how long in the sun before applying screen...
how much chain to lay out...
Some folks can take alcohol... some can't
Some can eat nuts... some can't
Some can eat meat... some can't
Some people can have sex... some can't
Personally I like to eat, drink, smoke and make merry...
Just coz you can't/wont don't lay your crap on me and I wont push my crap on you....
Nothing more boring than the Rightious ex drinker, smoker, born again or whatever....
My lifes deadly boring now so I'm gonna crap all over yours...
Grow up... Get a Life... Be an Adult...

jkleins · 05-01-2011, 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam Wald

I do not believe that alcohol at any level is a good idea when skippering a boat. Even if the level is low it causes people to...

1) Over estimate their ability
2) Over look critical information
3) Delay taking nessecary action
4) Reduce critical thinking and problem solving ability
5) Reduce physical reaction time (impared motor skills)
6) Impare memory function and situational awareness

Can anyone name a sport, job, or activity in which drinking makes people perform better? (Vomiting and bleeding don't count).

Do you have science behind this? I am a few years out of date, I know, but the last I reviewed this there was no significant change in #4,5 or 6 in low levels of alcohol intake. I have not seen anything about the first three so I won't comment. We actually saw some improvements in reaction time that were not significant in some tests.

I can see no logistical difference between someone who would have a glass of wine or a beer and then drive home then someone who has the same amount while driving a boat. There are tons of things we do different on a boat (sitting down to dinner, going to the bathroom, etc) that would decrease our reaction time way more then a drink. I have never seen anyone stand at the wheel their entire watch waiting for something to happen so they can react to it instantly. We typically read a book, work on charts, etc without worrying about the time it will take us to assess the situation and make a correct decision.

Even if alcohol would decrease the time it takes us to do any of this wouldn't situational differences far outweigh the alcohol related ones? Would you rather a guy with a glass of wine be standing in the cockpit near the wheel when an accidental gybe happens or a completely sober one with his pants down around his ankles in the head?

I am not advocating for drunk anything just that levels below the legal limits are below the legal limits for a reason. They are below the limits for which we can make compelling argument that it matters. If we had data that shows it did matter then you can bet they would be lower.

Jim