Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-10-2010, 11:31   #46
Registered User
 
capn_billl's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Houston,Tx
Boat: Maxum 37'
Posts: 1,587
They are in fact as accurate as a short description can make them. The first was in the local newspaper, the second my own experience. Drinking laws are not the only laws so abused. Since the days of the drive 55 most US law enforcement depts. have relied upon selective enforcement as a method of "revenue enhancement". Not the best setup for fair "rule of law".
__________________

__________________
capn_billl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2010, 12:04   #47
Moderator Emeritus
 
hummingway's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gabriola Island & Victoria, British Columbia
Boat: Cooper 416 Honeysuckle
Posts: 6,933
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Were any of your own examples of unreasonable enforcement fully accurate, they would illustrate why our laws have to be enforced as written. Seldom do enforcement officials exhibit “Solomonic” wisdom.
I believe this will be tested in BC with a new law that allows police to impose a 3 day driving ban and a $200 fine for blowing betweem .05 and .08. The police officer is now not only enforcement but also judge. I expect that we will see some challenges to this law. Over .08 and you still get your day in court. Lawyers seem to have success with challenges to evidence and procedure in DUI in this province which makes you wonder about the wisdom of law makers as well.
__________________

__________________
“We are the universe contemplating itself” - Carl Sagan

hummingway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2010, 13:24   #48
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by capn_billl View Post
They are in fact as accurate as a short description can make them. The first was in the local newspaper, the second my own experience. Drinking laws are not the only laws so abused. Since the days of the drive 55 most US law enforcement depts. have relied upon selective enforcement as a method of "revenue enhancement". Not the best setup for fair "rule of law".
As well here in Washington, we now have electronic surveillance which can honor you a traffic ticket at our local intersections.
And you have to be doing 10MPH over the limit to get pulled over since it's not worth their time to get you for any less. And they say they have no quotas until they come out in force at the end of the month(s).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	copcar2.JPG
Views:	124
Size:	93.4 KB
ID:	20497  
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 02:50   #49
Registered User
 
stumblingalong's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Philippines
Posts: 7
Wow...no drinking on the boat seems to be the gist here...not while navigating...but I've always felt perfectly safe to tip a few on the hook, a mooring, or tied to the pier. Is that generally recognized as irresponsible? Hmmmm...what's this world coming to....
__________________
stumblingalong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 06:30   #50
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by stumblingalong View Post
Wow...no drinking on the boat seems to be the gist here...not while navigating.......
I drink while navigating. Not over.05, but I certainly have a few beers during sundowners no matter where I am. I don't during bad weather, but the rest of the time the bar is open.

If I die at the helm holding a beer heading into the sunset, well, I can think of worse ways to go.


__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 07:18   #51
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,207
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate

If your BAC is not around 40%B-60%A your a sad sick sailor.....HIC'
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 07:20   #52
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,150
I think it's nuts to have any alcohol in you when you are responsible for the lives of others. Would you be okay with the surgeon operating on you to be at 0.07 BAL?

Also if and when an accident or injury occurs, in court the fact that you were drinking at all will be counted against you in the eyes of the jurors or the judge.
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 08:04   #53
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: California Coast
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 331
Posts: 680
Dry Boat

I do not believe that alcohol at any level is a good idea when skippering a boat. Even if the level is low it causes people to...

1) Over estimate their ability
2) Over look critical information
3) Delay taking nessecary action
4) Reduce critical thinking and problem solving ability
5) Reduce physical reaction time (impared motor skills)
6) Impare memory function and situational awareness

Can anyone name a sport, job, or activity in which drinking makes people perform better? (Vomiting and bleeding don't count).
__________________
Liam Wald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 08:07   #54
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: California Coast
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 331
Posts: 680
MarkJ,
I generally aree with you... however.
If you die at the helm with a beer in your hand going into the sunset that is probably just fine as long as you don't take someone with you who wants to live another day!
__________________
Liam Wald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 08:12   #55
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,207
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam Wald View Post
I do not believe that alcohol at any level is a good idea when skippering a boat. Even if the level is low it causes people to...

1) Over estimate their ability
2) Over look critical information
3) Delay taking nessecary action
4) Reduce critical thinking and problem solving ability
5) Reduce physical reaction time (impared motor skills)
6) Impare memory function and situational awareness

Can anyone name a sport, job, or activity in which drinking makes people perform better? (Vomiting and bleeding don't count).
Darts..... the more they drinks the better they get it seems
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 08:13   #56
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: California Coast
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 331
Posts: 680
Stublingalong,
I don't have a problem with drinking tied to the pier or aslip in the harbor. But in my opinion on the hook is still underway, just temporarily stopped. There ahve been too many times that I have had to pull up anchor and go before I planned to due to weather.
It is really hard to plan to set aside 10-12 hours to work off either being drunk or a hangover.
__________________
Liam Wald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 08:44   #57
Registered User
 
Unicorn Dreams's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Clear Lake Marine Services - Seabrook, Texas
Boat: Gulfstar, Mark II Ketch, 43'
Posts: 2,359
Tied up to a dock is temporarily stopped. It's a lot quicker to get ynderway from a dock than at anchor. unless you just cut your anchor chain. Of course, cutting 4-6 dock lines would be faster than byeaking out the bolt cutters.

Take the key out of the ignition, that;s the way most LEO's get people for drunl driving. The same goes for boaters.

My boat is my home, so I can drink in it as long as I'm stationary.
__________________
Formerly Santana
The winds blow true,The skies stay blue,
Everyday is a good day for SAILING!!!!
Unicorn Dreams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 08:59   #58
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,207
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate

LOL..... here we go here we go.....
People with low tolerance levels making judgements on folk with high tolerance levels.... a variation on the how long in the sun before applying screen...
how much chain to lay out...
Some folks can take alcohol... some can't
Some can eat nuts... some can't
Some can eat meat... some can't
Some people can have sex... some can't
Personally I like to eat, drink, smoke and make merry...
Just coz you can't/wont don't lay your crap on me and I wont push my crap on you....
Nothing more boring than the Rightious ex drinker, smoker, born again or whatever....
My lifes deadly boring now so I'm gonna crap all over yours...
Grow up... Get a Life... Be an Adult...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 09:10   #59
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Out cruising
Boat: Bruckmann 50
Posts: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam Wald View Post
I do not believe that alcohol at any level is a good idea when skippering a boat. Even if the level is low it causes people to...

1) Over estimate their ability
2) Over look critical information
3) Delay taking nessecary action
4) Reduce critical thinking and problem solving ability
5) Reduce physical reaction time (impared motor skills)
6) Impare memory function and situational awareness

Can anyone name a sport, job, or activity in which drinking makes people perform better? (Vomiting and bleeding don't count).
Do you have science behind this? I am a few years out of date, I know, but the last I reviewed this there was no significant change in #4,5 or 6 in low levels of alcohol intake. I have not seen anything about the first three so I won't comment. We actually saw some improvements in reaction time that were not significant in some tests.

I can see no logistical difference between someone who would have a glass of wine or a beer and then drive home then someone who has the same amount while driving a boat. There are tons of things we do different on a boat (sitting down to dinner, going to the bathroom, etc) that would decrease our reaction time way more then a drink. I have never seen anyone stand at the wheel their entire watch waiting for something to happen so they can react to it instantly. We typically read a book, work on charts, etc without worrying about the time it will take us to assess the situation and make a correct decision.

Even if alcohol would decrease the time it takes us to do any of this wouldn't situational differences far outweigh the alcohol related ones? Would you rather a guy with a glass of wine be standing in the cockpit near the wheel when an accidental gybe happens or a completely sober one with his pants down around his ankles in the head?

I am not advocating for drunk anything just that levels below the legal limits are below the legal limits for a reason. They are below the limits for which we can make compelling argument that it matters. If we had data that shows it did matter then you can bet they would be lower.

Jim
__________________
jkleins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 09:51   #60
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Darts..... the more they drinks the better they get it seems
Pool (as in 8 Ball etc). Beer definitly makes me better.
Picking up girls. Beer makes me beteer.

Mind you, I don't force my beer on others


Mark
__________________

__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Blood sailorboy1 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 23 13-09-2009 21:25
New Guy on Forum and It Is in the Blood! Thomey Meets & Greets 8 23-08-2009 19:10
Young Salt - It's in the Blood :) blackdog.tasha Meets & Greets 4 20-08-2009 21:25
Young Blood from Ottawa, ON CanadianRedneck Meets & Greets 9 23-03-2009 17:42
Alcohol, Propane? ssullivan Provisioning: Food & Drink 53 25-07-2008 05:22



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:34.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.