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Old 02-11-2013, 09:28   #166
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Re: ALL IS LOST: The Movie

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Exactly. It's not a training film which would be quite boring; it's a movie. Relax and enjoy it.

I'm thinking it's partially based on Stephen Callahan's ordeal where his boat sank, and he drifted 3/4 of the way across the Atlantic in a 6 man Avon Life raft. He didn't have an EPIRB either.
Correction, Callahan did have an EPIRB but got no response. He ran it for the first few hours after he hit the object (Whale?) and then only when crossing shipping channels or when he saw aircraft.

No one ever responded though so he drifted for 76 days just above the equator. He knew his rate of drift, his approximate latitude and longitude. So he knew when he was crossing the shipping channels and about when he should start seeing the islands.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:08   #167
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Just be aware that at that time EPIRBs where 121 MHz beacons only listened for by aircraft , the sat system was not in operation. Since he was away from aircraft routes he wasn't heard.


There's no comparison with now , when the average time under GMDSS in a liferaft is 4 days

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Old 02-11-2013, 14:41   #168
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Re: ALL IS LOST: The Movie

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Just be aware that at that time EPIRBs where 121 MHz beacons only listened for by aircraft , the sat system was not in operation. Since he was away from aircraft routes he wasn't heard.


There's no comparison with now , when the average time under GMDSS in a liferaft is 4 days

Dave
That's nice to know. I'll be sure and get an EPIRB before I venture too far off shore.................. as in sailing to Bermuda.

Looking at the map it doesn't seem to be that far off, but it's 600 miles..............
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Old 02-11-2013, 15:03   #169
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Re: ALL IS LOST: The Movie

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That's nice to know. I'll be sure and get an EPIRB before I venture too far off shore.................. as in sailing to Bermuda.

Looking at the map it doesn't seem to be that far off, but it's 600 miles..............
I know. It's only 3 inches on my chart. I mean really, how long could that take?
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:12   #170
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Re: ALL IS LOST: The Movie

I saw the movie Friday evening. The first clue that this was not produced by a sailor was the Redford character went to sea without a bucket. That's fairly basic stuff. And he had a sextant still in the box yet no hand held GPS. I guess that's because a sextant looks more sexy on screen but a hand leld GPS looks like a flip phone.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:50   #171
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Re: ALL IS LOST: The Movie

I just wateched it yesterday.

Made me glad we tossed our washboards and installed a door
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:03   #172
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Re: ALL IS LOST: The Movie

So many of these negative comments are ridicules. As others have rightfully said before me, its a MOVIE. So what you should be focusing on is the acting, the cinematography, the story, the overall feeling of the film. Not whether or not every single depiction onscreen was true to real life offshore sailing or that he followed correct offshore protocol the whole time. I guess if he had done that then it might not have been much of a movie! Reading through this thread I was reminded of many "comic book store man" type characters from the Simpson's, arguing about how various technical errors are present in the latest super hero film as opposed to the original comic, and being personally offended at these discrepancies.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:22   #173
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Re: ALL IS LOST: The Movie

My wife and I saw it last night. What I enjoyed about the movie was that it provided a good platform for us both to have a conversation about the characters critical mistakes. We both arrived at the same conclusions about how he landed himself in a liferaft.

I thought Redford did a good job...we both considered how we thought non sailors would view it. We think from a total different view, the character being a victim of circumstances our conclusion he was a victim of his own mistakes.

Called my mother how had seen it last week and had a great conversation about the movie as well so all and all it was a positive.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:29   #174
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Re: ALL IS LOST: The Movie

Well, the movie is about off shore cruising and survival at sea. The screen writer chose to distill the story down to the bare visual elements. There is little dialogue and no inter-character conflict to resolve. So, when all we have is the details to guide us it doesn't seem like asking too much for the writer and / or director to get the details right. Why no bucket? Was it washed over board? Then show us. Why no Epirb? Was the film set 25 years ago before the Epirb and GPS was in common use? Then tell us right after the opening credits. And, by the way, that would explain the sextant too.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:52   #175
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Re: ALL IS LOST: The Movie

It's a classic European style Existentialist film - where a character is singularly responsible for the consequences of his actions (or lack of them) with no guarantees about which decisions are good or bad; right or wrong.

I thought it was refreshing that the viewer gets to fill in so many blanks in the story with their own interpretations rather than being force fed details and resolutions as is typical of most Hollywood productions.

Everyone I have talked to who is not a sailor has loved it.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:40   #176
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Re: ALL IS LOST: The Movie

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Correction, Callahan did have an EPIRB but got no response. He ran it for the first few hours after he hit the object (Whale?) and then only when crossing shipping channels or when he saw aircraft.

No one ever responded though so he drifted for 76 days just above the equator. He knew his rate of drift, his approximate latitude and longitude. So he knew when he was crossing the shipping channels and about when he should start seeing the islands.
Once you turn on your EPIRB, NEVER turn it off!
  • If it doesn't have an integral GPS receiver (or the receiver doesn't work/can't get a lock) it will take more than one pass of the SARSAT satellites to get a doppler fix on your position.
  • If your latitude is greater than 70 degrees north or south so the geosync sats can't see you, your GPS position won't be received and it will again take several passes to locate you, as in the case above.
  • Turning an EPRIB on and off will be interpreted as a false alarm from a defective beacon.

If you also have a PLB, turn it on too. That sends an unambiguous: "this is not a false alarm - I really am in trouble" message. Two transmitters won't interfere with each other. They transmit bursts at random intervals on 406 MHz to prevent multiple transmitters from contentioning.

If your EPRIB self-launched due to a sinking, and you retrieve it from your lifeboat, don't take it out of the water. Tie it to the lifeboat using the lanyard provided. Taking it out of the water will deactivate it, and the EPIRB depends on the water as an antenna ground plane for optimal performance.

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Old 03-11-2013, 11:45   #177
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Re: ALL IS LOST: The Movie

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Originally Posted by Cpt Pat View Post
Once you turn on your EPIRB, NEVER turn it off!
  • If it doesn't have an integral GPS receiver (or the receiver doesn't work/can't get a lock) it will take more than one pass of the SARSAT satellites to get a doppler fix on your position.
  • If your latitude is greater than 70 degrees north or south so the geosync sats can't see you, your GPS position won't be received and it will again take several passes to locate you, as in the case above.
  • Turning an EPRIB on and off will be interpreted as a false alarm from a defective beacon.

If you also have a PLB, turn it on too. That sends an unambiguous: "this is not a false alarm - I really am in trouble" message. Two transmitters won't interfere with each other. They transmit bursts at random intervals on 406 MHz to prevent multiple transmitters from contentioning.

If your EPRIB self-launched due to a sinking, and you retrieve it from your lifeboat, don't take it out of the water. Tie it to the lifeboat using the lanyard provided. Taking it out of the water will deactivate it, and the EPIRB depends on the water as an antenna ground plane for optimal performance.

Cpt Pat
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Thanks, good reminders!!
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Old 03-11-2013, 16:19   #178
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Re: ALL IS LOST: The Movie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt Pat View Post
Once you turn on your EPIRB, NEVER turn it off!
  • If it doesn't have an integral GPS receiver (or the receiver doesn't work/can't get a lock) it will take more than one pass of the SARSAT satellites to get a doppler fix on your position.
  • If your latitude is greater than 70 degrees north or south so the geosync sats can't see you, your GPS position won't be received and it will again take several passes to locate you, as in the case above.
  • Turning an EPRIB on and off will be interpreted as a false alarm from a defective beacon.
If you also have a PLB, turn it on too. That sends an unambiguous: "this is not a false alarm - I really am in trouble" message. Two transmitters won't interfere with each other. They transmit bursts at random intervals on 406 MHz to prevent multiple transmitters from contentioning.

If your EPRIB self-launched due to a sinking, and you retrieve it from your lifeboat, don't take it out of the water. Tie it to the lifeboat using the lanyard provided. Taking it out of the water will deactivate it, and the EPIRB depends on the water as an antenna ground plane for optimal performance.

Cpt Pat
FCC licensed Global Maritime Distress and Safety System Maintainer
Thanks for the advice. Callahan's EPIRB though in 1981 wasn't quite as high tech as the ones we have now. It may not have even had a satellite link.............
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:37   #179
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Re: ALL IS LOST: The Movie

Upon rereading the posts on this thread, I counted no less than 13 errors in judgement or provisioning that CF members have taken exception with. I think that builds a strong case for the argument that this character was not a seasoned blue water sailor and the film is best viewed in that context.

If nothing else, it has generated an active conversation within the sailing community about how to prepare for an extended blue water adventure. Can't speak for anyone else but I've learned alot from this thread.

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Old 04-11-2013, 10:59   #180
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Re: ALL IS LOST: The Movie

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Thanks for the advice. Callahan's EPIRB though in 1981 wasn't quite as high tech as the ones we have now. It may not have even had a satellite link.............
You may be right about that but ... just barely.

The first SARSAT satellite was launched in 1982 (NOAA - Search and Rescue Satellite Aided Tracking - History). Those satellites detected beacons operating on the international aviation VHF distress frequency of 121.5 MHz (and the military equivalent: 243 MHz). Although they were less accurate than today's SARSATs, they also depended on a continuous uninterrupted reception of the beacon to triangulate the beacon position using doppler shift over multiple satellite passes. Switching the beacon off would have had the same disruptive affect.

Today's EPIRB and PLB beacons still have a low power (50 milliwatt) transmitter operating on 121.5 MHz (the PLBs repeatedly transmit the Morse code letter "P": dit dah dah dit). It's role is for close-in triangulation by surface or airborne rescue. I personally monitor 121.5 MHz continuously when underway (with a dedicated receiver) just in case there's an active EPIRB within my reception radius of about 20 nm. All that one can expect to hear on that frequency is an occasional hail from one airliner to another, and daily tests from Air Traffic Control.

Pilots use the frequency in much the same way boaters use channel 16. They are all expected to monitor the frequency in international airspace - and the line-of-sight range is tremendous. When cruising in blue water, 121.5 MHz would make a very effective backup frequency for sending a distress call (which is legal if you're really in a life-threatening distress situation). You'll need a separate transceiver - even if (illegally) modified, marine band radios can't support the modulation scheme (AM). A handheld transceiver (example) will work just fine. Your antenna elevation is irrelevant - the "receiver's" antenna is at something like 35,000 feet.
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