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Old 09-01-2009, 10:37   #31
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jkd, I notice that you are a new user with 2 posts and both on this thread. What is your dog in this fight? Are you a poser?

jkd, I find your last post offensive. If anyone is crapping in the pool it is you.
As JKD says I don't understand what in this context a poser is.

The dog fight is that we are all sometimes treated like kids and the intelligent ones have realised it.

How you can find JKD's post offensive is beyond me, it is as far as I am concerned a good accurate way of putting things and therefore, using your expression, I must be crapping in the pool with him as I am sure many others are too but are afraid to say so.

I found this original post pompous and very deragatory to those mentioned, if a low life soul like me or any other just member had said some of those things he would have been berated by a mod with the threat of a strike.
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:43   #32
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I think jkd's post is funny, though not necessarily accurate depending on one's point of view. I don't think jumping on him for it adds much to this either, it's just one man's opinion.

People that don't like the way this forum is run should go to another forum, maybe the one linked a few posts above, people who do like the way this forum is run should stay here.

I don't really see what value this whole thread has either, especially the inclusion of data about particular people.

I think bstreep's little animation is pretty damn good and very relevant too. In both threads.

What is a poser anyway?
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Old 09-01-2009, 13:28   #33
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Well, we agree on one thing, thanks Bill.
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Old 09-01-2009, 13:40   #34
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“Where have all the flowers gone, long time passing?...”
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(words and music by Pete Seeger /w Joe Hickerson)


I didn't realize how many people were tee'd off by the mod team.

Is there a lesson here?
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Old 09-01-2009, 13:42   #35
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With all due respect to Kobe and Shaq, I think of CF as a community pool that allows everyone to swim in and has a concession stand selling soda’s and chips to keep it going.

John
Ummm...Who are you? What do you know of the trial and tribulations of CF?

Actually, I thought Sean and Alan would both be back. Since this thread began I've emailed with the both of them, neither will be returning and both are involved with other forums. The loss of their input here is truly a loss and never should have happened.

Gord, with all due respect, your numbers look great, but might have some trouble growing if too many key members are lost.
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Old 09-01-2009, 14:06   #36
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I think jkd's post is funny, though not necessarily accurate depending on one's point of view. I don't think jumping on him for it adds much to this either, it's just one man's opinion.

People that don't like the way this forum is run should go to another forum, maybe the one linked a few posts above, people who do like the way this forum is run should stay here.

I don't really see what value this whole thread has either, especially the inclusion of data about particular people.

I think bstreep's little animation is pretty damn good and very relevant too. In both threads.

What is a poser anyway?
This confuses me a bit. Why would someone choose to read and/or post on one forum or another by the way that it is moderated?? That makes little sense to me. This forum is not nor does it claim to be a Democracy. It is a dictatorship and the dictator has appointed a "Cabinet" (if I may use that term) to govern the forum.

Everyone knows that when they come here so why would they be surprised or upset when things don't go their way???

It's kinda like when you're out cruising and you sail to a country of your choosing. That country is bound by rules....their rules. If you choose to visit that country, you'd better darn well abide by their rules because they don't care about your perception of their rules or what the rules were where you came from.

My Dad said something to me one time that I will never forget.."Son, all you have in life are choices, use those choices wisely because they are what will make up who you are and what your life will be like......one more thing....don't burn your bridges....."

This is a great forum......it's full of interesting threads. If you don't like what is said or done in one thread, make a choice to ignore it and move to another thread. Getting upset and leaving the entire forum makes little sense, if you enjoy the forum in general......it's all about choices.
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Old 09-01-2009, 14:16   #37
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An interesting point of view but one that I don't believe rings true. This forum has close to 20,000 members. That many people have registered here. How many visit on any given day? 400 - 600? If your point was valid wouldn't this be 10x higher?

My point is, that the way this forum is managed is probably one of the important variables as no one can dispute the value of the forum's content.
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Old 09-01-2009, 14:30   #38
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An interesting point of view but one that I don't believe rings true. This forum has close to 20,000 members. That many people have registered here. .
How many are actually active and how many have been pushed away by heavy handed tactics, I bet less than 1000 are actually active.
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Old 09-01-2009, 14:41   #39
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An interesting point of view but one that I don't believe rings true. This forum has close to 20,000 members. That many people have registered here. How many visit on any given day? 400 - 600? If your point was valid wouldn't this be 10x higher?

My point is, that the way this forum is managed is probably one of the important variables as no one can dispute the value of the forum's content.
What must be understood is that the "value" of the forum is subjective. The increase in "Value" (whatever that is) is only an increase to the one that owns the forum (in reality). If the owner of the forum (the dictator) sees "Value" in the members decreasing (for some personal reason) he/she may choose to manage the forum in a way that narrows down to a particular "Type" of member (if you will).

The bottom line is, the owner of the forum is the dictator and the success or failure of the forum lies in his/her hands and the interpretation of "Success or failure" is his also.

I just can't even imagine why any individual member would be concerned about the "Success or failure" of this (or any) forum and what the interpretation of "Success or failure" is......or why this is even an issue to any one particular member in the 1st place......
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Old 09-01-2009, 14:48   #40
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The bottom line is, the owner of the forum is the dictator and the success or failure of the forum lies in his/her hands and the interpretation of "Success or failure" is his also..
I know we see this differently, so I'll let this rest here. Remember that although your "dictator" contributes an url and server space, we the members are the content, the experts, the teachers and the entertainment.

Forums are a special case in that they are uniquely symbiotic. We in fact need each other.
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Old 09-01-2009, 14:57   #41
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Gist of my original question was the obvious, Gord was basically in my view adding fuel to an already burning fire. In my minds eye forum moderators and admins should be held to a higher standard, perhaps this is a misguided perception.

@Kanani- I think people get attached to certain forums they become active in. People contribute time and energy (how much time have you been on past few days? ) and therefor form the perception in their mind they have a say/can guild the direction of the forum at times. Have some form of an impact. This is untrue in any forum based upon the outlined hierarchy, yep it's a dictatorship. So is work for the most part. People just forget this when they put a lot of effort and time into something they are passionate about is the reason people get so wound up. I've had it happen at other forums and it's hard for me to separate the two at times.

Then you add in pokes by mods/admins (perceived or real) and other members and its like throwing gas on a burning fire.
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Old 09-01-2009, 15:23   #42
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Gist of my original question was the obvious, Gord was basically in my view adding fuel to an already burning fire. In my minds eye forum moderators and admins should be held to a higher standard, perhaps this is a misguided perception.

@Kanani- I think people get attached to certain forums they become active in. People contribute time and energy (how much time have you been on past few days? ) and therefor form the perception in their mind they have a say/can guild the direction of the forum at times. Have some form of an impact. This is untrue in any forum based upon the outlined hierarchy, yep it's a dictatorship. So is work for the most part. People just forget this when they put a lot of effort and time into something they are passionate about is the reason people get so wound up. I've had it happen at other forums and it's hard for me to separate the two at times.

Then you add in pokes by mods/admins (perceived or real) and other members and its like throwing gas on a burning fire.
Trust me....I know....I've poured my heart & sole into this forum. I have spent more time writing of my adventures here than I have to my own kids & grandchildren. I've spent hours of time posting and researching help for others that are asking for help.....That's just what real cruisers do...That's the difference between a real cruiser and phony. A real cruiser is their to help....no matter what the conditions are.....a phony turns the other way at the first sign of trouble.

However, I don't feel like I need to "control" what goes on here. I try not to let what others say (mods or members) effect what I read or post on this forum or whether I leave or stay....What does that mean anyway (leave or stay)?? It seems that some people on here have some real "control" issues. That only causes that person personal harm. That person can't hurt me, you the mods or the dictator. What's the point???

Come and go as you please........a person only hurts themselves when they make these grandiose "I'm leaving" announcements. It has no effect on others. I hate to see these members go too. I hate it worse when they try to cause harm when they leave because I know that, that person is only harming his/her self. I consider these people my friends and I don't like to see friends harm themselves in such meaningless ways.
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Old 09-01-2009, 18:23   #43
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Originally Posted by Kanani View Post
This confuses me a bit. Why would someone choose to read and/or post on one forum or another by the way that it is moderated?? That makes little sense to me. This forum is not nor does it claim to be a Democracy. It is a dictatorship and the dictator has appointed a "Cabinet" (if I may use that term) to govern the forum.

Everyone knows that when they come here so why would they be surprised or upset when things don't go their way???

It's kinda like when you're out cruising and you sail to a country of your choosing. That country is bound by rules....their rules. If you choose to visit that country, you'd better darn well abide by their rules because they don't care about your perception of their rules or what the rules were where you came from.

My Dad said something to me one time that I will never forget.."Son, all you have in life are choices, use those choices wisely because they are what will make up who you are and what your life will be like......one more thing....don't burn your bridges....."

This is a great forum......it's full of interesting threads. If you don't like what is said or done in one thread, make a choice to ignore it and move to another thread. Getting upset and leaving the entire forum makes little sense, if you enjoy the forum in general......it's all about choices.
I mainly agree with you. However, although I may visit a forum and get something from it, the moderating style may have a great influence in whether I stay around and really get involved (and I've stayed here).

I agree with everything else you said, but to add:

Yes, this is a dictatorship. Cool thing is, the dictator does listen to us and take suggestions. This thread is an example of that listening.

But since it is a dictatorship, I don't take the attitude that they gotta fix things for us. I take the attitude that it is an added plus that they do listen and sometimes act on those suggestions.

-dan

Full Disclosure: For those of you that see I have registered on that certain other brand new forum, I am not leaving here. I just want to be involved over there as well.
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Old 09-01-2009, 18:33   #44
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I think if you look at my ‘born on date’ you can see I have been here lurking for quite some time. I have followed all the melodrama while gaining some VERY good info from a lot of very knowledgeable folks. I just hate to see this site keep going thru the same issues again and again with people leaving on bad terms.
I take “play nice in the sand box” seriously and think those in charge should be above the fray more than they do. That is the only reason I was driven to post at all. If I have used up all my allotted posts for this year on this subject, I will simply go back to lurking.

P.S. being forum illiterate, I don’t know what a ‘poser’ is.
When I first saw your posts, I also thought you might be a poser. Poser:Someone presenting themselves as something they are not. In this case, possibly a person who left this forum, but then created a new profile to come back and post anonymously.

But, being the analytical type, I looked at your "born on date" (I like your use of that phrase), and realized that was not the case.

The only reason I put in that first paragraph is to say, I think someone thinking you might be a poser is understandable. If I were you I wouldn't take offense (unless they now ignore your "born on date" and go at you again).

Sorry it took something like this to get you to post in here.

And I, too, thought your earlier post was kinda funny.

-dan
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Old 09-01-2009, 18:38   #45
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Lets look at it from a different perspective.

If you owned a boating forum and you wanted to maximize the number of people who visit, would you let everyone say anything they wanted to? Would swearing, spam, rudeness, disrespect and other things prohibited by the rules of this forum be acceptable to you? How far do you think you would get with a website that is chaotic? How far do you think you would get with a website that has very low content to non-content ratio?...where you have to wade through irrelevant trivia just to get to the information you are looking for?

There are as many people as there are ideas on where a website should be with respect to too strict or too chaotic or whatever balance is being attempted. Therefore the owner must decide what is the best balance for a number of things and understand that he or she will never be able to please everyone.

I think it is important to appreciate the differences between what you believe and what the owner believes and that there will be differences because no two people are the same. There is no right or wrong here with respect to forum policies...just plenty of gray areas that come down to one persons opinions versus another persons opinion on how a forum should be managed.

There will always be those at the far ends of the bell shaped curve who either find this place too strict or too chaotic or too this or too that. That's okay and that's normal, because its impossible to please everyone.
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