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Old 26-08-2012, 07:56   #16
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Re: Yacht, not under command

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Desso = Designated Driver

Not to be confused with Devvo.. Thats how you will be if you get caught.

Devvo = devistated :-D
Hey Rusky, not trying to steal your thread so please bear with me here .

So I now got Desso (we call 'em the skipper in the west) - which brings me to the next question.

Who do they put the bag on - the guy on the helm, the skipper, the guy holding the skippers ticket, the owner, anyone they want? Sorry to ignorant, but I (nor my mates) have yet to stopped by any water wallas.
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Old 26-08-2012, 08:04   #17
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Re: Yacht, not under command

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Hey Rusky, not trying to steal your thread so please bear with me here .

So I now got Desso (we call 'em the skipper in the west) - which brings me to the next question.

Snip
No No. The skipper is still the skipper. But he appoints a sober person to take the helm as needed.
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Old 26-08-2012, 08:18   #18
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Re: Yacht, not under command

I'm kind of new to sailing and I must have this wrong. I thought a boat was required to maintain a watch anytime underway or at anchor. Moored or tied up at a dock no watch was required. In my military mind being on watch does not mean you are in command but you are sober. The skipper, whether physically present or not, is responsible for the condition of the boat and crew. Did I read to deep into something?

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Old 26-08-2012, 08:25   #19
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Re: Yacht, not under command

Not under command is a term used for if the boat is suffering some form of mechanical difficulty for example. It doesnt relate to whether or not there is a person actually commanding the vessel. Yes a proper watch is to be kept at all times.

The nature of this thread is about about recreational boats, where, I alluded to a skipper handing over the helm and giving up his position as skipper so he can enjoy a beer or ten. But you are correct, the skipper is responsible.

A simple example would be if I was on your boat and you, as the owner and skipper, wanted to drink. If it was a rare occasion that I didnt also have one, I could step in and become the skipper of the boat. Or Desso ( thats not a nautical term lol)
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Old 26-08-2012, 08:44   #20
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Re: Yacht, not under command

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
........
So I now got Desso (we call 'em the skipper in the west) - which brings me to the next question................
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Originally Posted by ozskipper View Post
No No. The skipper is still the skipper. But he appoints a sober person to take the helm as needed.
Opps, sorry for the confusion here Ozskip (using idiom can be confusing at times). I was actually referring to the WA practice of calling the designated driver a "skipper" when out on the turps with the mates. Nothing to do with boats or nautical things at all. The sign in the bar might say "free soft drinks for the designated driver" and he/she will say, "I'm the skipper for this group" and the cola flows freely.

Now back to regular programming.
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Old 26-08-2012, 08:58   #21
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Re: Yacht, not under command

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Originally Posted by ozskipper View Post
Not under command is a term used for if the boat is suffering some form of mechanical difficulty for example. It doesnt relate to whether or not there is a person actually commanding the vessel. Yes a proper watch is to be kept at all times.

The nature of this thread is about about recreational boats, where, I alluded to a skipper handing over the helm and giving up his position as skipper so he can enjoy a beer or ten. But you are correct, the skipper is responsible.

A simple example would be if I was on your boat and you, as the owner and skipper, wanted to drink. If it was a rare occasion that I didnt also have one, I could step in and become the skipper of the boat. Or Desso ( thats not a nautical term lol)
OK, lets see if this is the same as the east coast!

In the west, the average recreational boat (i.e. one with an engine) has to have a skipper and he/she must be carrying a recreational skippers ticket (RST). They have to be sober (0.05). They may elect to have someone else on the helm; if so, the person on the helm also has to be sober (0.05) but doesn't need an RST.

So you as say owner and skipper (with a RST) wants to indulge in a few sherbets; you may decide to appoint another skipper. That is OK providing the appointed skipper holds a RST. The new skipper who must be sober can either be on the helm or not; if not they must appoint a sober helm's person.

Same in the east (Qld, NSW or Vic) or not?
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Old 26-08-2012, 15:17   #22
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Re: Yacht, not under command

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Hey Rusky, not trying to steal your thread so please bear with me here .

So I now got Desso (we call 'em the skipper in the west) - which brings me to the next question.

Who do they put the bag on - the guy on the helm, the skipper, the guy holding the skippers ticket, the owner, anyone they want? Sorry to ignorant, but I (nor my mates) have yet to stopped by any water wallas.
I saw this set, indicating 'not under command' up on another live aboard and sat and thought.

Now 'not under command' does not necessarily mean not mechanically functioning.

Last trip up north we were harassed by the wallopers. A different set each day for a week in one instance. Each asked to check safety gear, one asked if we were aware of the 'loo rules', one asked if were were aware we were in a dugong or turtle zone?? etc etc.

As for the breathaliser, the desso must be licensed, and that has also changed for boats over 12m in length. For the record I dont drink on any passage/day trip or any time I am in charge of the vessel - zero/nada!
At anchor I may have a max of 2 stubbies - so this is not an issue for me.

Luckily under the previous Govn, they are completely broke so this meant no fuel so you only got the wallopers near a higher populated area.

Now in moreton bay, the coppers run almost daily to Stradbroke, so they loiter past Horseshoe bay and sneak up literally and pounce on yachty's and ask the same guys, the same things.

The attitude , as mentioned above is the deal maker or breaker and I saw one with his ticket book out as they approached this stink boat - he got done for mixing old flares with new!

This is why I raised the question. It appears it would be like a red rag to a bull. It gets up my nose as I, and most yachty's are 'greenies' by nature, live under the radar and look after the environment and other waterway users. I wish to be left alone.

Thanks for your comments. Appreciated.
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Old 26-08-2012, 15:31   #23
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Re: Yacht, Not Under Command

Haven't been on Moreton Bay for 20 years; and it seem as if it has changed for the worse. Maybe I won't go back there after all.
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Old 26-08-2012, 15:32   #24
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Re: Yacht, Not Under Command

FWIW,

We routinely fly an anchor ball, and it has not seemed to attract any unusual attention from the authorities. I frankly doubt if ANY of them know what it means, or even notice it!

This has been from Lizard Is in the north to the south coast of Tasmania.

It may be that being a foreign flag vessel (USA registry) they don't bother us... I have heard both sides of that argument !

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Old 26-08-2012, 15:42   #25
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Re: Yacht, Not Under Command

I am curious as to why Aussies are incensed with alcohol???
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Old 26-08-2012, 15:56   #26
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Re: Yacht, Not Under Command

1. The coppers can't drink on duty. Jealousy.

2. Catching a pickled sailor would look good on the logbook (see Boss? wasn't just perving on the sheilas on Bird Is.).

Aussie sailors, drunk? Naaaah......

It would be annoying to be visited daily, though. After daily visit #3 I'd consider politely asking them to let their mates know about the confirmed presence of correct safety gear and paperwork etc. That would free them up to ask about other stuff, or just buzz off and annoy someone else.

Or, ask around and borrow as much spare safety-related crap as I could, and force them to tally it all up every time......457 life jackets, 65 stout buckets with lanyards, 98 signal mirrors, .73 sq km of V sheets, 823 sets of (current!) flares, up-to-date charts in every known language and projection method, 3.2 tons freshwater, 523 complete first aid kits, enough fire extinguishers to put out the sun, etc etc
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Old 26-08-2012, 16:19   #27
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Re: Yacht, Not Under Command

darn 25 yrs ago when Connie and I visted Down Under, It seemed that everyone bent over backward to see we had a great time! Officials were so helpful, we could almost not believe it (after just being in the French Isles) we remember the time we visted there with fondness and the folks we met both the sailors and land folk treated us so kindly we will always have a soft spot for both OZ and NZ But from thr threads we have been reading Things have sure changed!! Looks like it will be off our agenda for our next pacific trip !! To bad we did love it there !!
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Old 26-08-2012, 16:36   #28
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Re: Yacht, Not Under Command

Must've been those blasted y2k Olympics. Someone smuggled civilisation in past Customs. Joh, we miss you, come back!!! (Swap ya for Joooolie anyday....)
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Old 26-08-2012, 18:23   #29
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Re: Yacht, not under command

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
In the west, the average recreational boat (i.e. one with an engine) has to have a skipper and he/she must be carrying a recreational skippers ticket (RST). They have to be sober (0.05). They may elect to have someone else on the helm; if so, the person on the helm also has to be sober (0.05) but doesn't need an RST.
In QLD unlicensed drivers may drive a boat provided a licensed driver is onboard supervising and is able to take immediate control of the boat.
While control of the boat has been handed over, the command of the boat has not, so the licenced skipper still has to be sober as you point out and is still responsible for the vessels safe operation...

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So you as say owner and skipper (with a RST) wants to indulge in a few sherbets; you may decide to appoint another skipper. That is OK providing the appointed skipper holds a RST. The new skipper who must be sober can either be on the helm or not; if not they must appoint a sober helm's person.
Correct, as long as there is a sober licensed skipper in command then there’s no problem. Don’t let the fuzz see you “swapping seats” if they decide to pull you over either, there has been quite a few instances where they have observed who was actually on the wheel through binoculars long before they got told to heave to.....

As for the correct definition of a "Vessel Not Under Command"

Rule 3
General Definitions

For the purpose of these rules, except where the context otherwise requires:

(f) The term vessel not under command means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to manoeuvre as required by these rules, and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel.


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Old 26-08-2012, 18:27   #30
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Re: Yacht, Not Under Command

No: rather it seems to be an invitation to be boarded.
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