Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-03-2011, 12:56   #1
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: medusa NY
Boat: Tayana Surprise 45 schooner "Union Pacific"
Posts: 2,098
Wrecks

i was watching a video on youtube today someone was running round the horn. in the film they showed a boat that had sunk, looked to be a modern boat. what is the law if you come upon an abandoned wreck? most of it was under water, but if it was me, and it was allow i would have gone salvaging.

so whats the rule for international waters?
__________________

__________________
scoobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 13:16   #2
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,831
Re: wrecks

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobert View Post
i was watching a video on youtube today someone was running round the horn. in the film they showed a boat that had sunk, looked to be a modern boat. what is the law if you come upon an abandoned wreck? most of it was under water, but if it was me, and it was allow i would have gone salvaging.

so whats the rule for international waters?
usually the same as anywhere not in international waters. maritime law has far reaches into many legal systems. if you are not preventing immediate or reasonable further damage to the vessel (like one that is already and aground)...then you have few if no salvage rights...touching another's vessel without reasonable proof of preventing harm and no knowledge of the owners intentions is punishable by maritime law (at least that is what I have read). if you find something drifting...you could always argue complete loss...but you better document wellif you ever have to answer in maritime court.
__________________

__________________
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 13:26   #3
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: medusa NY
Boat: Tayana Surprise 45 schooner "Union Pacific"
Posts: 2,098
Re: wrecks



3:32
__________________
scoobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 13:28   #4
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,188
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: wrecks

Territorial waters extend to 200 miles these days... used to be just 12 but it got extended mainly due to discovery of oil offshore that the countries wanted to claim... so you'd be subect to Chilean law... or whoevers waters you find a wreck in...
If you find a boat floating mid ocean or close to shore thats been abandoned you bring it to port and submit a claim for 'Salvors Rights and Dues' under the national rules....
in the UK for example anything found belongs firstly to the Realm... you may then after review may be granted claim to the whole or a %age for your trouble...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 13:44   #5
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: wrecks

I would guess you can grab it and request salvage from the owner.

But there are not many places in International Waters that you could find a sunk and retrieve-able boat.

If it is on a reef, it belongs to the imperialist who have claimed the reef;-)

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 13:46   #6
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: wrecks

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Territorial waters extend to 200 miles these days...
I am not sure you are correct. I think the territorial waters are still, mostly, 12 miles.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 13:52   #7
Registered User
 
cfarrar's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Brooklin, Maine U.S.A
Boat: Allures 44
Posts: 734
Images: 2
Re: wrecks

200 miles is typically for economic resources - oil, gas, minerals, and sometimes fish.
__________________
cfarrar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 13:56   #8
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,188
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: wrecks

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I am not sure you are correct. I think the territorial waters are still, mostly, 12 miles.

b.
Seeing as salvage involves 'DOSH'... aka Money... I feel it very likely the 200 miles will apply.... or... as in the USA the extent of the continental shelf... which in places is much more...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	300px-Zonmar-en_svg.png
Views:	102
Size:	21.2 KB
ID:	24659  
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 14:06   #9
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,831
Re: wrecks

don't be focused on territorial waters as maritme law is worldwide and into local waters if the country is a signer to the particular treaty or law.

The real deal is if it's abandoned...then go for it but try to prove it if the owner says it wasn't abandoned...or you have to prove that YOU prevented further loss to collect any monetary gain....
__________________
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 17:57   #10
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: wrecks

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Seeing as salvage involves 'DOSH'... aka Money... I feel it very likely the 200 miles will apply.... or... as in the USA the extent of the continental shelf... which in places is much more...
You were talking territorial waters and I commented on territorial waters.

In fact, the picture you posted (attribution?) proves what I was pointing at.

Who, how much, for what and if DOSH is another issue and you maybe 100% right on that.

US territorial waters are too, as far as I know, 12 miles. I think it used to be 3, before Reagan.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2011, 07:31   #11
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,571
Images: 240
Re: wrecks

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Territorial waters extend to 200 miles these days... used to be just 12 but it got extended mainly due to ...
Boatman is confusing the 200 nm Exclusive Economic Zone with the 12 nm Territorial Waters (per UNCLOS).
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2011, 07:44   #12
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,188
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: wrecks

Not really confusing guys...
just aware that Territorial and Economic are easily interchangeable/extentended at the drop of a hat.... if it suits their interests..
I remember reading somewhere that the US for example now considers the limit of the Continental Shelf as territorial water...
and thats plus 200 miles in some areas...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2011, 13:42   #13
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: wrecks

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post

I remember reading somewhere (...)
Yep. You have read it on the CF ... ;-))))

Cheers, hugs,
b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2011, 13:53   #14
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,761
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: wrecks

hay--if it was mine, i claim 1000 mi territorial waters around it....is the island of zeehag.....silliness aside-- we claim 12 mi for fishing and 3 mi for dumping waste and 200 mi out for claiming mineral rights and oil spilling and money grabbing.
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2011, 14:33   #15
Moderator
 
nigel1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Manchester, UK
Boat: Beneteau 473
Posts: 5,179
Re: wrecks

If its been abandoned and the insurers have coughed up, it may well be their property
__________________

__________________
Nigel
Beneteau 473
Manchester, UK
nigel1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tangalooma Wrecks Anchorage FraidNot Pacific & South China Sea 2 13-01-2010 04:43
Sailing Yacht 'Scarf' Wrecks on Rocks in Lake Worth Inlet on Way to Bahamas Ram Cruising News & Events 19 06-01-2008 21:42



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:04.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.