Why don't Cruisers Fly their National Flags?

[Nelsons]

I have to fly our trading flag which is completely different to our Luxembourg national flag, it’s required for aviation and navigation. National flag is too similar to the Dutch flag, so it’s always a conversation because nobody knows our beautiful flag. (which is much nicer than our national)

However I can tell you why many European vessels fly a different flag. French or British flag is required if you decide for french leasing in order to avoid EU tax. While signing french leasing your vessel is officially a french vessel no matter which nationally you have.

There are other flagging offers from Belgium and Netherlands but both are coming to an end in 2019 but it was very popular in Spain. It’s all about tax.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rognvald

I always find it interesting when some Americans tell others that they are ashamed of their country and, in this case, do not fly the American flag. Are they ashamed that the US is the greatest superpower in the world? Are they ashamed that we have more personal freedoms guaranteed under our constitution than any other country in the world? Are they ashamed that we have free enterprise capitalism where a person can pursue their material dreams without undue government regulation and interference from any social level in life? Are they ashamed that despite our declining educational standards we still have the greatest universities in the world that educates not only Americans but students from around the world? Are they ashamed that Americans have the highest home ownership per capita of any country in the world? Are they ashamed that Americans have the lowest tax rates of any country in the world? Are they ashamed that they have a constitutional right to bear arms against a repressive government? . . . .

Except that almost none of this is true!


Home ownership:





https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...hip-rates.html


We don't even make the top 10!





Lowest tax rates in the world?


The U.S. barely gets into the top 10 in the Heritage Foundation's Index of Economic Freedom, behind Canada, the U.K., Estonia, Australia, New Zealnd and Ireland.


We have the highest corporate tax rates in the world, a severe inhibitor to investment and economic activity, an insane policy decision.



We are barely above average in terms of taxes on wage-earners:





In Sweden or Finland, workers pay less income tax than we do up to nearly $100,000 a year -- and for their tax money, they get cradle-to-grave health care and education for free. Several European countries have flat taxes on income; in Russia it's 13%.




As to "free market capitalism" -- the corporate income tax in Finland is 20% (compare to 35% in the U.S.), and companies generally do not pay capital gains tax. A Finnish person who wants to quite a job and start a business can get 2 years of his salary from the state, so that he has something to live on while he does it!





As to the constitutional right to bear arms against a repressive government -- good luck with using arms, against the government! Even advocating the overthrow of the government, is a crime (18 U.S.C. 2385)






The U.S. is certainly a great country, but we are hardly leaders of anything anymore, other than military spending. There is an awful lot we could learn from other countries.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Except that almost none of this is true!

Well, the truth is somewhere between. You're wrong about the 35% corporate tax. 21% now. Your home ownership stats include places where government apartments were essentially given away but 40% have no bathroom for the top one.
Whatever.
Our crew is from several countries and they all proudly fly their own flags together on the same boat. The only competition is in size and condition. The only ridicule would be aimed at any weirdo who is reluctant to fly their own colors.
It's all good fun.

[Cadence]

This has drifted. I wonder what constitutes home ownership when considering mortgage debt.

[Argyle38]

Originally Posted by LoudMusic

There was a picture posted on Reddit years ago of a row of houses on July 4th, each with their American flag proudly displayed. People were commenting that "in their country that would be considered inappropriate nationalism". I was STUNNED. As I recall, when probed all they would say is they were in northern Europe.

Most of my life I've had a 1.5 to 2 meter American flag on the front of my house. My boat has a 1m flag on a staff that we only take down when the weather is really nasty. And after hurricane Florence I raised a 2 meter flag to the top of the mast.

I'd like to get small (0.5m?) state flags for where I was born, where my wife was born, and where we grew up and were married (Texas, Missouri, Arkansas) to fly from the port spreader. I'd also like to have state flags to fly for whatever state we are in for courtesy flags, but I think that might be considered weird.

I just really like flags

https://i.imgur.com/hSNy3Zs.jpg

I do the state flag courtesy flag thing as well. US states are semi-independent entities, each with their own personalities, so why not. If I have a flag of the state I'm visiting, I'll often fly it from the starboard spreader halyard where a courtesy flag would go if I were in another country. I've also flown provincial flags under the Canadian courtesy flag when cruising Canada.


I like flags too .

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by cyan

Well, the truth is somewhere between. You're wrong about the 35% corporate tax. 21% now. ..

Is it? That's great news. What idiot dreamed up a 35% corporate income tax? And in the U.S., dividends are taxed AGAIN after tax is paid on the profits! So even at 21%, the real tax rate on dividends is over 40%.



In Estonia and Latvia, the corporate income tax is 20%, and tax is paid only upon distribution of dividends, and in lieu of any tax on the dividends, so there is no double taxation.


In Finland, it's 20% and in Sweden 22%. These are socialist countries! Yet they treat their entrepreneurs better, than we treat ours!

[sv.antea]

Few years ago I cruised in the med and I flew my American flag. Particularly in Adriatic, I got the the impression it did me no favors, got some funny looks, too. When I commented on it to fellow cruisers, I got an interesting explanation. Majority of boats flying the American flag there were actually Russian for whom it was a flag of convenience in those days. It started to make sense. American flag boats were surprisingly rare and few times I called my ahoy when passing by one in town, I got on strange look and unintelligible reply. Yup, the American flag was typically tiny 8-1/2 x 11" plastic thing and the boat home port was in Maryland. The locals believed all the US flagged boats were Russian mafia.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by dwedeking2

Just to offer a different opinion, I dont fly a national flag. It's not that I'm anti anything but rather I don't associate any attachment based on where you were randomly born. I think the whole "my country is the best" thing is way overblown (and historically an excuse for way too much drama).

I do fly the flag of the country on the starboard spreader as a sign of respect (and to avoid drama).

Nothing to do with where you are born. It's indicating the vessels state of registration in accordance with international conventions. ("Flag state").


"Every State, whether coastal or land-locked, has the right to sail ships
flying its flag on the high seas. "

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Is it? That's great news. What idiot dreamed up a 35% corporate income tax? ....

The same idiot that made up the exceptions so that many many profitable US corporations pay near no income taxes.

[Rorzech]

Do like S/V Delos and whip then up with an onboard sewing machine.and some colored cloth.

[Fbfisher]

American flag on the stern, CA (me) and Saskatchewan (wife) flag on the port spreader at anchor.

[Dranflydbl]

One possible answer is that not all nations and cultures place the same emphasis on their flag as a sign of patriotism. I happen to like my country's flag and have fought in two shooting wars with it displayed as a symbol of who we are, but I couldn't say it is a measure of my patriotism or that of a lot of my countrymen. Seeing an Aussie flag flying outside a house here is a very rare event, but seeing people turn up in huge numbers to national events to celebrate being Aussie is normal.

[Nelsons]

@Dockhead
Nice documentation but it does not meet the point. Income tax is not relevant, it’s about VAT and certificate fee. Not every country has its tax haven like US with Delaware.

If you gonna buy a vessel in Spain e,g, you have to pay 21% VAT PLUS 12% certificate fee the the Spanish registration. So nobody is keen to sail a Spanish flag to show his origin. In this example with Spain, if you sign for a french leasing you get your vessel ⅓ cheaper and in this case - who cares about the flag?

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

In ten months I've gone through two Taylor Made US flags and one other 'high end' flag I bought in St Martin. I think it is worse to fly a frayed and tattered country flag than none, so, I haven't bothered in the past two months since I can't get a replacement that isn't 4' x 6'. I do have the least frayed wrapped around the flag staff and can deploy at anytime.

I disliked being fined in San Francisco $250 for clearing in from Vancouver thru major winter storms, with a torn US flag .

I disliked the british crew member who flew the maple leaf upside down when entering my home port Vancouver after a summer season in Alaska. (Joked that it was "Autumn", so he thought it logical that the leaf be falling ! [emoji35]

I dislike people waving flags as some part of a meaningful discussion on fairness and equality!

I fly them for entry and departure purposes, then they are removed and stored in the mothball drawer.

[mikereed100]

Originally Posted by DEAN2140

When I was backpacking through Europe (many years ago) many Americans would have a Canadian flag sewn on their gear because they felt they were better received by the locals. If anything I would think the situation today is even worse.

I've always thought this was a little silly. I backpacked to over 40 countries in the '80's and '90's and was universally well received as an American.

We have a flag on a staff at the transom, but, to be honest, rarely fly it as it makes a heck of a racket in the wind and disturbs my "wa" during happy hour.