Who has right of way?

[Sabbatical II]

Hi All

The other day I was sailing home on Lake Macquarie. I had the headsail poled out to weather on the starboard side and was flying the staysail on the portside with the main still zipped up in the bag.

For the purposes of giving way to other sailing vessels, what tack was I on?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Sabbatical II

Hi All

The other day I was sailing home on Lake Macquarie. I had the headsail poled out to weather on the starboard side and was flying the staysail on the portside with the main still zipped up in the bag.

For the purposes of giving way to other sailing vessels, what tack was I on?

Basically you were running before the wind/goose wing.. or other terms... you still give way to anything under sail coming from your starboard..
But then... I give way to everything...

[Sabbatical II]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Basically you were running before the wind/goose wing.. or other terms... you still give way to anything under sail coming from your starboard..
But then... I give way to everything...

I share your "give way to everything rule", at least everything bigger than me. However, where does this "you still give way to anything under sail coming from your starboard" come from? Sometimes in that situation I will be the stand on vessel. I thought giving right of way to starboard was between motor boats.

[mbianka]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Basically you were running before the wind/goose wing.. or other terms... you still give way to anything under sail coming from your starboard..
But then... I give way to everything...

lol. Good advice. I was motor sailing down the Hudson River with the current. I saw a sailboat on a starboard tack crossing the river coming toward me looked like he was heading for my midship. I steered to starboard to give him room. A few seconds later I see he is still heading toward my midship again. I turn to starboard again and the same thing happens. Now I'm running out of water. I can't see into the other boats cockpit because is dodger has just two tiny windows don't even know if anyone is at the helm. So I give the guy five whistles hoping he hears it and knows what it means. He finally comes within a few feet of my stern waves and then tacks. I guess he just wanted to say hi. Needless to say I was not in a friendly mood at that point.

[Factor]

Ignoring for a moment saeplanes, then Rule 18 says

(b) A sailing vessel under way shall keep out of the way of:

(i)a vessel not under command;
(ii)a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii)a vessel engaged in fishing;

(c)A vessel engaged in fishing when underway shall, so far as possible, keep out of the way of:

(i)a vessel not under command;
(ii)a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver

.

Rule 12 says

Sailing Vessels
(a) when two sailing vessels are approaching one another, so as to involve risk of collision, one of them shall keep out of the way of the other as follows:

(i)when each of them has the wind on a different side, the vessel which has the wind on the port side shall keep out of the way of the other;
(ii) When both have the wind on the same side, the vessel which is to windward shall keep out of the way of the vessel which is to leeward;
(iii) if the vessel with the wind on the port side sees a vessel to windward and cannot determine with certainty whether the other vessel has the wind on the port or the starboard side, she shall keep out of the way of the other.

(b) For the purposes of this Rule the windward side shall be deemed to be the side opposite that on which the mainsail is carried or, in the case of a square rigged vessel, the side opposite to that on which the largest fore-and-aft sail is carried.

So under rule 18 - you give way to everything except power boats and they give way to you.

Under Rule 12 - I would suggest that you were on port tack, in that the largest sail was being carried to starboard - even though it was poled out and you were not a square rigged vessel, the nearest rule is that which suggest you have the wind on the opposite side of the side where the largest sail is carried. (12b).

Of course where there is doubt - you act to resolve that doubt and if necessary alter course.

And a boat approaching you seeing the large sail on the starboard side would be "entitled" to think you were on port tack, in my humble opinion.

Just a suggestion though

[LeaseOnLife]

What is the other boat thinking? For any other boat, you could be considered the leeward boat, no matter what tack.

(ii) When both have the wind on the same side, the vessel which is to windward shall keep out of the way of the vessel which is to leeward;

While I would like this interpretation, when running poled out, prevented out, I would never bet on it.

Dirk

[Sabbatical II]

Originally Posted by Factor

And a boat approaching you seeing the large sail on the starboard side would be "entitled" to think you were on port tack, in my humble opinion.

Just a suggestion though

Thanks Andrew, my opinion also. Regardless of the law, it is likely to confuse and therefore hard to predict anyone else's response. Probably not a good idea to be threading through a racing fleet in this manner this arvo.

[Paperbird]

The rules don't care where your sails are, just where the wind is coming from. So you were on starboard tack.

[Coops]

So you are running before the wind with the wind coming over your right shoulder and hence on "starboard tack". There is a boat heading across in front of you going to windward on starboard tack, which one of you claims right of way then? It's amazing how many answers I get from this question.



Coops.

[Stu Jackson]

In that case, Coops, windward leeward. The boat coming upwind is the stand on vessel.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Coops

So you are running before the wind with the wind coming over your right shoulder and hence on "starboard tack". There is a boat heading across in front of you going to windward on starboard tack, which one of you claims right of way then? It's amazing how many answers I get from this question.



Coops.

The one who does not chicken out..?

[sabray]

windward vessel unless it bm61 then its all about how your rooster is hung.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by sabray

windward vessel unless it bm61 then its all about how your rooster is hung.

Windward vessel gives way. The OP, running with the wind is probably going to be windward in any interaction with another sailing vessel. In any case where a stbd vessel is coming at the OP from windward it will likely be overtaking and therefore the give way.

[daddle]

There is no "right of way".

The COLREGS don't seem to include the RRS (international race rules) rule concerning windward/leeward for boats on the same tack/gybe. And that sail poled out to windward won't determine which tack you are on, maybe back in squarerigged days, not nowadays.

You are downwind on starboard. You give way (RRS) only to sailboats also on starboard that you are overtaking. And all the usual craft that cannot maneuver and such.

I know that the RRS do not apply, but they do contain the wisdom of the ages, politeness, and because not written by motorheads are in the minds of many sailors as a better fit to sailboat navigation.

As for an approaching boat aiming at your side. Well if you are moving at all then you will not be where you are when he passes. You will have moved on. It is a fine way to avoid a collision. It's the boat aiming at a point ahead of you that is a problem. Same with large ships. Don't worry so much about the ship that has you dead on his bow. Worry about the one that looks to be crossing close ahead.

[Pyrate]

If all else fails:

"Rule 2:
(a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master, or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case.
(b) In construing and complying with these Rules due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, which may make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger."

In other words, take care to avoid a collision, regardless of the rules and who has right of way. If there is a collision, even if you had right of way, you could be found negligent if it could have been easily avoided. Of course, this is all assuming that you were not in an area of low visibility and would have sight of the other vessels...