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Old 06-04-2013, 18:00   #16
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Re: Who has right of way?

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Originally Posted by daddle View Post
The COLREGS don't seem to include the RRS (international race rules) rule concerning windward/leeward for boats on the same tack/gybe. And that sail poled out to windward won't determine which tack you are on, maybe back in squarerigged days, not nowadays.
Ahem...Rule 12 (a) (ii):

"(ii) when both have the wind on the same side, the vessel which is to windward shall keep out of the way of the vessel which is to leeward"
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Old 06-04-2013, 18:04   #17
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Re: Who has right of way?

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Windward vessel gives way. The OP, running with the wind is probably going to be windward in any interaction with another sailing vessel. In any case where a stbd vessel is coming at the OP from windward it will likely be overtaking and therefore the give way.
Huh Agree running vessel/windward gives way. I think. Boatguy 61 said he wanted to play chicken. So now we want to know how right you are willing to be. You could tie off one ball to a line and haul it up the mast. That means your an oak but you have dropped your acorns.
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Old 06-04-2013, 18:06   #18
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pirate Re: Who has right of way?

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windward vessel unless it bm61 then its all about how your rooster is hung.
Ahahahahaa..Good one.
But seriously.. ever since I got T-Boned 12 yrs ago by someone motor sailing at 5-6kts while I was ghosting goosewing at 1.5kts... light breeze and an ebb tide off Start Point.. I've never trusted anyone regardless of the Rule of the Road..
Shoot... don't seem that far back..
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Old 06-04-2013, 18:19   #19
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Re: Who has right of way?

My rule is that you can't trust anyone else to really know the rules. One point I believe that was made but not really emphasized is the definition of tack, "the tack of a sailboat is the side opposite that on which the mainsail is carried (or, on a square-rigged vessel, the largest fore-and-aft sail)." It really doesn't have anything to do with where your wind is as any racer will tell you. Racers will sail by the lee just to be on starboard tack when rounding a leeward mark.

IMHO Since your mainsail was bagged and therefore non-existent I'd say "the largest fore-and-aft sail" has to be the determining factor, however, since there is some question in this case then if there were a loss then the courts would have to sort it out. In that case it is the "Magilla Gorilla Rule." The owner with the largest attorney wins.

"The One-Minute Guide to the Nautical Rules of the Road" by Charlie Wing is my source and I carry it on the boat at all times.

kind regards,
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Old 06-04-2013, 19:52   #20
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Re: Who has right of way?

People who are quoting (copyng and pasting) rules worry me. The question was what tack he was on and it sounds if it was a starboard tack if the staysail was flying normal and on the port side of the boat.

But it doesn't matter where the sails were, it matters where the wind was in relation to the boat.

So Greg where was the wind?
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Old 06-04-2013, 20:05   #21
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Re: Who has right of way?

Im staying out of your way Don. All the books show the the wind was from that way.
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Old 06-04-2013, 20:51   #22
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Re: Who has right of way?

I presume any other boat is under the command of an ignoramus unless otherwise demonstrated. Discussions such as this one on "right-of-way" confirm my experiences.
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:55   #23
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Re: Who has right of way?

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Originally Posted by Don L View Post

So Greg where was the wind?
Coming from under my right armpit whilst I was attending the wheel with elbows raised and eyes forward. Interesting answers which gives me an insight into what you guys are thinking as I approach.
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Old 07-04-2013, 06:37   #24
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Re: Who has right of way?

I am a disciple of Skipper John (and Brother BoatMan) on this one:

Rule #1: My rule is that you can't trust anyone else to really know the rules.

You were on port tack... give way to all starboard and leeward (plus the other constrained/working/disabled dribble) until it becomes obvious that rule #1 becomes obvious.... 90% of the time it will....
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Old 07-04-2013, 07:00   #25
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Re: Who has right of way?

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Originally Posted by Don L View Post
People who are quoting (copyng and pasting) rules worry me. The question was what tack he was on and it sounds if it was a starboard tack if the staysail was flying normal and on the port side of the boat.

But it doesn't matter where the sails were, it matters where the wind was in relation to the boat.

So Greg where was the wind?
Geez Don people who don't understand the rules worry me. The apparent wind on Greg's boat is unknown to approaching vessels - this is why the rules define it thus:

Quote:
12(b) For the purposes of this Rule the windward side shall be deemed to be the side opposite that on which the mainsail is carried or, in the case of a square rigged vessel, the side opposite to that on which the largest fore-and-aft sail is carried.
Obviously without his main, it's open to interpretation. Assuming the headsail is larger than the staysail, most would believe Greg is on a port tack. If he has a similar amount of fabric on both sides, there is a small conundrum. Even assuming he is stbd, he will be windward of any other stbd vessel he encounters, so will give way. Unless that stbd vessel is overtaking, in which case Greg gets to stand on. The only possible confusion I can imagine is in meeting a vessel on a port tack. If Greg considers he is port-tack then he is windward and should give way. If the other vessel can't determine Greg's tack, then according to 12.(a)(iii) he should assume Greg is stbd and give way to him. So the worse case scenario, both vessels will give way.
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Old 07-04-2013, 07:32   #26
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Re: Who has right of way?

[QUOTE=daddle;1204353]There is no "right of way".


Almost true.
Western Rivers rules are the only ones where the words "right of way" are used and only once. Downbound vessels have the right of way.

Everything else has stand on and give way with the overriding proviso that you must do everything posible to avoid a collision.

I just get so frustrated when prople use "right of way" in describing a situation they were just experiencing.
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Old 07-04-2013, 10:36   #27
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Re: Who has right of way?

The sailboat in question is on starboard tack. I would recognize it, because with two headsails-one poled out to starboard ,and, as OP describes apparent wind,("Coming from under my right armpit") it's pretty obvious that the "cant" of the sails will illustrate the tack the vessel is on.
The OP also knows which tack he's on. Therefore, he will stand on or give way in good time as is appropriate. This is also a clue to other vessels.

This is NOT a square-rigged vessel.
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Old 07-04-2013, 10:39   #28
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Re: Who has right of way?

It really doesn't matter who has the right-of-way, as long as no accident/collision occurs. And...that is the "right way"! Mauritz
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Old 07-04-2013, 10:51   #29
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pirate Re: Who has right of way?

Okay... we've had the Wiki verdicts... along with a bit of slagging...
as far as I'm concerned I'm running before with wings... matters not whether the jib is P or S...
The other boat is on P or S tack headed into the wind... my reasoning is I have a lot more options for bearing off and avoiding without losing momentum than the other boat which has to either tack or gybe to clear...
Common Courtesy & Common Sense makes me the 'Give Way Vessel'.
Power is down to restrictions if in Traffic Area's...
I'm not one of the little Hitler's shouting and frothing at the mouth and waving a rule book from their cockpit... or the armchair come to that...
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Old 07-04-2013, 11:38   #30
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Re: Who has right of way?

I'm pretty considerate to somebody with poles out or a motorvessel trolling along- a tack is easy- no need to "stand-on. I tack Early so it's plain. But somedays I will need (nay!-WANT! my right-of way, ...and that boat will just have to push the throttle ahead or gybe and get clear of me. They should expect to do so in the first event and be grateful when they don't have to, just like the person on the roadway you "give a break " to.
Where there's "traffic" , it can get pretty darn confusing if you keep changing the scenario unnecessarily. I expect you to expect me to do the right thing... MY scenario may be giving way to you while crossing a third or fourth vessel's bows. Like wise, they have the picture too. ..
It's not about waving a rule book. If I see a green light on the roadway but consider I can't trust anybody else to stop at the red/(alter course in a timely manner), I am a bit of a hazard. Caution at intersections/(crossing situations) is ok,keeping options open is defensive driving/(safe sailing), but avoiding them altogether is impossible.
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