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Old 29-04-2013, 18:36   #31
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Re: where is the best place to register our boat

Jedi-having set up boat ownership many times in various forms and in various jurisdictions, foreign and domestic (US), I can clarify a bit for you. In the US, a "member" of an LLC is the LLC equivalent of a shareholder. I can verify, through experience, that the CG requires that all members, i.e. shareholders, in an LLC owning a vessel and registering her in the US must be US citizens. Proof must be provided with the registration application. In the event that a member is a corporation, that corporation must be a "citizen" in the same manner as if it were the direct owner of the boat. The concept is quite simple, US documented boats must be owned by US citizens. There are convoluted means of getting around this through some secondary-tertiary ownership structures, but there is no point and no real advantage.
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Old 29-04-2013, 19:42   #32
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Re: where is the best place to register our boat

Okay, that is all very clear... not. If "member" means shareholder, then it seems I better read my paperwork because I didn't know that

If this is the idea then I'd tend to go with the idea that one foreign held LLC holding another LLC is indeed not going to work either. Which leads me to question how these US flagged yachts owned by foreigners do this.

I had no trouble but also I was immediately exporting Jedi and striking from the register. I guess they then have a state registration and somehow get away with that when entering other countries?

99.9% of all Panamanian flagged ships are owned by non-Panamanians. I can hardly believe that every US flagged ship and yacht is owned by a US citizen, but the rules sure look that way. Or there is another way to get Internationally recognized documentation. I still don't understand why then there is this rule about 75% of shareholders must be US citizens in case of trade or fishing is done. So there are members and there are shareholders, but members are also shareholders. Hmm.. I don't think that conforms to International law.

Jedi is now registered in Holland and my LLC does not own a boat, just a car and a motorhome. I have all the shares, I thought, or memberships.. I hope :S

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Old 29-04-2013, 20:07   #33
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Like I said, you set up USLLC1 and you own it. Then you set up USLLC2 and USLLC1 owns it. USLLC2 owns the boat. Then there is only a US shareholder of the LLC that owns the boat - all ok. And you ultimately own the boat, but indirectly. It's a subsidiary holding corp.
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Old 29-04-2013, 20:14   #34
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Re: where is the best place to register our boat

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Originally Posted by SVNeko View Post
Like I said, you set up USLLC1 and you own it. Then you set up USLLC2 and USLLC1 owns it. USLLC2 owns the boat. Then there is only a US shareholder of the LLC that owns the boat - all ok. And you ultimately own the boat, but indirectly. It's a subsidiary holding corp.
I hear ya... but JayCall says that this won't fly as the 2nd LLC must be US owned too in that case. That is why I said it wasn't clear to me. But I should think they must state it like that and why mention 75% of shareholders for two endorsements when they all must be US citizens anyway. I think it's fishy.

recap: for fishing or coastal endorsement 75% of shareholders must be US citizens. For registry and recreational endorsements this is not needed.
In either case, 100% of shareholders (members) must be US citizens. This is nonsense.
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Old 29-04-2013, 22:11   #35
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I think he's saying the same thing. I would be surprised if the CG looks up the chain when agencies who would care more, like the IRS, do not. But I do not do this with the CG, so can't say for certain.
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Old 29-04-2013, 22:30   #36
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Re: where is the best place to register our boat

Jedi-the CG is picky about it, and can be a real pain in the butt about tracing ownership. If you see an American-flagged vessel, it is indeed owned by a genuine American citizen. If you are commercial, the rules get even more sticky. It used to be that boats in charter in US waters had to be built in the US. With so many boats built in Asia now, that rule has been relaxed. For coastal trade between US ports, however, the Jones Act still requires a US built vessel, US ownership and a US crew. That is why the US Merchant Marine Fleet has shrunk so dramatically over the years. For instance, when I shipped my boat from Fla to Wa, I could not ship it into Seattle, as there is simply no cargo service from US to US (Miami to Seattle), it had to land in either Ensenada, MX or Vancouver, CA.
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Old 29-04-2013, 22:43   #37
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Hmmm. Surprising to me. But I believe it. When I documented my French-made boat they made me jump through a bunch of hoops. Seemed a bit of a waste of time and resources frankly.
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Old 29-04-2013, 23:45   #38
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I also took a long hard look at the rules and concluded there was no way I could have my boat US registered because I am not an American citizen.

Took a look at flags of convenience and they only seemed to make sense if the boat was not going to stay in the US and would never make landfall in my home country. I ended up registering my boat in my home county (Australia).

If you intended to keep the boat in the US or even visit the US regularly and yiu are a US citizen then US registration is essential. Foreign flagged vessels have to report every time they move between enforcement zones.
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Old 30-04-2013, 06:14   #39
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Re: where is the best place to register our boat

Amazing how this thread has taken off. We really haven't got a clue what the OP had in mind, where she is from, if she already owns a boat or not, or really any other detail about what she intends or expects. But that won't stop a thread from going off on a tangent for page after page, will it?

Ain't the internet grand?
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Old 30-04-2013, 10:27   #40
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Re: where is the best place to register our boat

So JayCall is correct. The Chrysler absurdity that Nick mentioned and some others that occurred to me made me Google around a bit. Here is a law review article with some good background.

http://www.winstonandstrawn.com/site..._Winter_07.pdf

The hubris of the CG to recommend that public companies restrict stock sales to US persons, as if that was even possible, blows my mind.
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Old 30-04-2013, 13:28   #41
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Originally Posted by SVNeko View Post
So JayCall is correct. The Chrysler absurdity that Nick mentioned and some others that occurred to me made me Google around a bit. Here is a law review article with some good background.

http://www.winstonandstrawn.com/site..._Winter_07.pdf

The hubris of the CG to recommend that public companies restrict stock sales to US persons, as if that was even possible, blows my mind.
It feels like I've landed in an alternate reality where weirdness rules.
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Old 30-04-2013, 14:17   #42
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Re: where is the best place to register our boat

It make sense to register your boat in most suitable country. There is nothing illegal in this it is common practice for both commercial boats and long distance crusing boats.
The countries you can register In depend on the passport, or passports that the owners hold and/or what legal companies you are prepared to employ.

The main message is consider the options. Your home country may not be the most convinient country of registration.
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