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Old 01-01-2015, 07:50   #331
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Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

I believe many are missing the whole point of mooring fields, they will make anchoring illegal, that will take care of the stored and derelict boats as being anchored, they are now illegal and can be removed.
Of course it comes at what, a $15 a day fee for the cruiser, and apparently this doesn't even cover costs, the taxpayer has to kick in additional funds.

Gotta ask, who wins here? Not the cruisers, not the taxpayer? The guy who wants those cheap junky boats out of the backyard of his multimillion dollar home wins, after all he worked hard for that, he deserves it !!!
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Old 01-01-2015, 07:51   #332
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Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

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Gotta ask, who wins here? Not the cruisers, not the taxpayer? The guy who wants those cheap junky boats out of the backyard of his multimillion dollar home wins, after all he worked hard for that, he deserves it !!!

Not even just the "cheap junky boats", but all boats will be removed from his view, and that seems to be the goal.
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Old 01-01-2015, 11:40   #333
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Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

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I as a boater hate it when I anchor in a nice spot, just to have the view ruined by a couple of unkept houses. You know the type, unkept yards, missing roof shingles and maybe some peeling paint. Is there a government program that can remove these derelict house eyesores from my front yard?

Dragon Point comes to mind.



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Old 01-01-2015, 12:38   #334
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Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

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I as a boater hate it when I anchor in a nice spot, just to have the view ruined by a couple of unkept houses. You know the type, unkept yards, missing roof shingles and maybe some peeling paint. Is there a government program that can remove these derelict house eyesores from my front yard?
Actually in most municipalities there are many ordinances on such matters and then on top of that many are in homeowners' associations. The areas that are most in question regarding anchoring would generally have such laws. One of the most hated jobs in local government is "Code Enforcement."
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Old 01-01-2015, 13:06   #335
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Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

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Not even just the "cheap junky boats", but all boats will be removed from his view, and that seems to be the goal.

You know, unless I miss my guess, these people think most of our prides and joys, are cheap junky boats.

I think if you sat them down and asked, they would inform you that they worked hard all their life to buy the dream home in Fl., and they don't think we should be able to "camp" in their backyard, it's just not right. I mean you can't park a motorhome on their street can you?

They have no understanding about boats, navigable waters or any of the issues, they just know it wasn't this way when they lived in whatever northern land locked state they came from, and they want it changed.

If you look up RV history in the US, you will find the same thing happened, many, even boaters on this forum think we should be corraled into mooring fields, stacked on top of each other, like an RV park.

Now, I have only transited through S FL., I don't like it there, the attitudes, the crowding etc. but I don't want this mooring field stuff to spread. I do not want to have to cruise from one RV type mooring field to another.

Are most of you really of the opinion that the intent is not to outlaw anchoring, that you will be able to anchor just outside of these mooring fields if you chose?

If the mooring fields are a burden on the taxpayer and they don't get rid of anchored boats, then what purpose do they serve? If boats are allowed to anchor outside of the mooring fields, then how are they going to help end the problem of abandoned boats, a argument that is continually used as to whay we need mooring fields, to get rid of all the junk boats?

Please I am not trying to start any kind of flame war or argument, if I'm misguided and wrong, please edjucate me. I want to be wrong on this, but if we don't rally together somehow and fight this, we will lose our privlidge to anchor out.

Many organizations are extremely successful, think AOPA and the NRA. even if you despise guns, you have to admit the NRA has been successful.

Do we have an organization?
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Old 01-01-2015, 13:47   #336
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Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

This dilemma will continue for a while. Hopefully all of us will be heard through "meetings with FWC", our membership to various supported organizations ( Boat US and many others ), surveys etc.

I'm very lucky to wake up each day and get to look out my sliding glass doors next to my bed and see the activity on the St Johns River here in Jacksonville,Fl. All sorts of boats from Tugs pushing, to Tugs assisting ships tying up to Talleyrand Terminal, to the rowing teams from Jacksonville University, to the crabbers pulling their traps 50' from my dock. Nice guys just trying to make a living. I've even made friends with some of the 5-6 permanent sail boaters long term anchoring next to Exchange Island. They take care of their boats. Far from derelict.

I even enjoy seeing an occasional sail boat that may anchor over night near by. They don't stay long.....not because they are unwelcome but because of fast current, exposure to some serious North and Westerlies that the North flow of the St. John's doesn't like and the noise all night from Jockey Trucks loading Crowleys Sea Barge. The Tugs have their "communicating whistle" that I even enjoy.

Just long winded to say, this is all part of our Florida "water environment" that I truly love and support and hope all others will as well.

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Old 01-01-2015, 14:14   #337
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Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
You know, unless I miss my guess, these people think most of our prides and joys, are cheap junky boats.

I think if you sat them down and asked, they would inform you that they worked hard all their life to buy the dream home in Fl., and they don't think we should be able to "camp" in their backyard, it's just not right. I mean you can't park a motorhome on their street can you?

They have no understanding about boats, navigable waters or any of the issues, they just know it wasn't this way when they lived in whatever northern land locked state they came from, and they want it changed.

Now, I have only transited through S FL., I don't like it there, the attitudes, the crowding etc. but I don't want this mooring field stuff to spread. I do not want to have to cruise from one RV type mooring field to another.

Are most of you really of the opinion that the intent is not to outlaw anchoring, that you will be able to anchor just outside of these mooring fields if you chose?

Please I am not trying to start any kind of flame war or argument, if I'm misguided and wrong, please edjucate me. I want to be wrong on this, but if we don't rally together somehow and fight this, we will lose our privlidge to anchor out.
You refer to "these people" and talk about how "they" feel or what "they" know and then "their intent."

I don't see a large number of "these people" and I think to group them into some stereotype is wrong.

First, the current pilot programs and the attempt at regulations did not come about initially based on limiting anchoring. It started in an effort to prevent individual municipalities from imposing limits. Now that then opened up the entire question of what limits they should be allowed to set or should there be a statewide rule.

For those in support of strict rules, they aren't some large group where all feel the same. They're fragmented and many different reasons. And I believe they're still very much in the minority. One of the leaders of what I guess is referred to as the anti-anchoring faction I'm aware of lives 10 miles from any water. She just appears to be trying to make a name for herself.

To suggest all those involved have the same intent is assuming a lot. Some have had one very bad personal experience. Some don't like boaters period for reasons having nothing to do with anchoring. Some just want to find something acceptable to prevent cities from going too far.

You mention South Florida and your dislike of it, based on transiting through. I live in Fort Lauderdale. I think it's the most boater friendly city there is. Crowded, yes. Must mean some people really like it. But we have free anchoring all around the area of our home. We also have a mooring field. We have lots of marinas.

Do mooring fields often reduce anchorages? Yes. They typically eliminate one anchorage. But don't wipe them all out. A few mooring fields won't eliminate thousands of anchorages. Again, we've had a mooring field here for years. Nothing new. Not part of the pilot program. It's not going to spread like wildfire as they cost to put in and require maintenance. But there are some who really like them. Another option. And I might add that in Fort Lauderdale we don't have a major derelict boat issue as they take them south to Stock Island it seems. My first time ever using a mooring field was Catalina just over a month ago. I thought it was great, but that was before the breakaway of boats last week.

As to an organization. Organization to say what, do what? Waterway Guide appears to be leading activity. But neither they nor any organization can represent all the views of this board or boaters in general. Views go from the extreme to very moderate. I certainly don't want some group representing me.

I want to express my own views. I've written letters to those involved. I'll attend public forums if I'm around, otherwise send someone to participate. But we tend to react as if something awful has happened or is about to. Two things only have happened to date. First, the biggest thing that happened was the state telling the municipalities that they can not pass ordinances to regulate anchoring and water usage, that it's a state issue. Second, a pilot program was put in place. To me that was a great approach to try something in those places that seemed most disturbed. The restraint to me was tremendous in trying something and not jumping into some new law.

Now, possible regulations are being discussed. The FWC has tossed out some possibilities which have then been roundly criticized by some residents as too soft and others as too strict. But at this point, it's all open for discussion. Surveys taken that were made known to everyone here. Our task is to follow the proceedings, voice our views, and stay actively participating.

Ultimately there will be some type of law. It will tell municipalities the maximum steps they can take, the maximum limitations. It may set some regulations state wide. It will not allow municipalities to do anything they wish. Will anchoring be restricted? Yes. Unreasonably restricted? I hope not but then that's also a matter of opinion as to what is reasonable.

It's a bit humorous when we read things like "The wealthy waterfront landowners don't want anchoring around their house." The reality is "A very few wealthy waterfront landowners don't like anchoring." I live in the most highly developed waterfront area in Fort Lauderdale and I don't personally know a single homeowner around me who has any problem with anchoring. Of course in our neighborhood the vast majority of waterfront homeowners are boaters. We like boats. We have them in front of our houses.

Personally, I'm comfortable with some things suggested and uncomfortable with other suggestions.
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Old 01-01-2015, 14:15   #338
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Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

We are in the Boot Key Mooring field right now and have seen quite a few boats on the moorings that would have been considered derelict boats if they had been anchored. I guess the fact they're making their monthly payment makes it ok for the authority's? I personally have no problem with what some people would consider a derelict boat, as long as it's being used.
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Old 01-01-2015, 14:24   #339
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Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

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I personally have no problem with what some people would consider a derelict boat, as long as it's being used.
That's why we need to define what is a derelict boat or a boat unacceptable in it's abandoned state.

Yes, derelict boat is perspective. It was never made so obvious to us as a friend's mother flew in to visit, then joined us in Alaska. She was born in Spain and had been recently living there. An 85' boat was by far the smallest Christina had ever been on. And she noted that it was only three stories tall. We don't believe she'd ever been on anything under 164', 50 meters. Most had been much bigger than that.

To me it's not much different than on land and isn't appearance. It's whether it's legal to operate (registration and condition) and whether it actually can move on it's own.
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Old 01-01-2015, 14:32   #340
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Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

BandB,
Somebody's pushing this, quite a few somebody's I believe, and it's those that I refer to as "those people". I know it's not all waterfront landowners, I bet they are a minority, but it's probably not the people that live where a boat can't be seen is it? With the exception of the person who you said was trying to make a make a name for themselves, it's just not logical for someone to push for a law that has no effect on them.

If it doesn't do away with anchoring in an area, how could a mooring field solve the derelict boat issue, or even have any effect?
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Old 01-01-2015, 15:12   #341
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Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

Pilot....just my opinion but I believe those that want the mooring fields hope that those that like to "anchor out" as live aboard won't be able to afford a mooring field. May be true for some, the " old " Boot Key situation, but for most it's about not being regulated/restrictions.

In the recent years, many marinas jacked up their prices so high people moved out to anchoring out or lose their boat due to escalating cost.

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Old 01-01-2015, 15:21   #342
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Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

Is there any proposal to install more mooring fields anywhere in Florida at this time?

Is there more to proposals other than what I am reading on this SSCA page? Seven Sea Cruising Association

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The FWC crafted statute seemed to focus on relaxing the following restrictions. Below are 5 "freedoms" for which they would like to pass regulation on to local governments. (--) is my SSCA CCC recommendation.

Municipalities and counties have the authority to establish any or all of the following anchoring restrictions by ordnance or local regulation:

1. No vessel may be anchored within ____ distance of the marked boundary of a permitted mooring field. (SSCA CCC = 50'). A range of 50’ to 100’ predominated in discussion
.
2. No vessel may be anchored within ___ distance of a public boat ramp, marina, hoist, marine railway or other launching or landing facility available for use by the general public. (SSCA CCC supported 200' from public launching sites). Range of responses was 200’ to 500’, 200’ being most popular.

3. No vessel may be anchored within ___ distance of waterfront residential property. (SSCA CCC recommended 0' i.e. no consideration, but would consider 1.5x the length overall of vessels from private marine infrastructure) Municipalities sought up to 300’.

4. No vessel may be anchored on the water within {location or jurisdiction} for more than ___ continuous days in any period. (SSCA CCC recommended no blanket duration limitations, period). Responses varied from 24 hours to 7 days to no limitations.

5. No vessel may be stored on the water within jurisdiction if the vessel exhibits one or more of the a list of at-risk program characteristics (SSCA CCC took no issue as the characteristics describe near derelict condition).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, I missed the survey so never saw exactly what was contained in it.

From what I read above, it really would not effect most anchorages we use on either coast of Florida, nor the Keys. I could definitely work around the above restrictions. I certainly can't find anything related to banning of anchoring on Florida waters, just restrictions in the more heavily populated areas.


For those unfamiliar, there are places to anchor near the existing mooring fields. It might mean a little longer dinghy ride to shore, but no problem with anchoring.

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Old 01-01-2015, 15:34   #343
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Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

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From what I read above, it really would not effect most anchorages we use on either coast of Florida, nor the Keys. I could definitely work around the above restrictions. I certainly can't find anything related to banning of anchoring on Florida waters, just restrictions in the more heavily populated areas.


For those unfamiliar, there are places to anchor near the existing mooring fields. It might mean a little longer dinghy ride to shore, but no problem with anchoring.

Ralph

It's a PILOT program, which means the intent is to expand it. The 5 sites in the pilot program are near populated areas, but that doesn't mean that follow-on legislation would be restricted to those areas.

Florida cruisers need to watch this closely, as representatives from Dade and Broward have in the past tried to sneak in legislation that didn't conform to the general lines that you indicate.

The concerns indicated by cruisers here also reflect those of Boats U.S., Practical Sailor, and other cruising clubs and organizations.
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Old 01-01-2015, 15:36   #344
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Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

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We are in the Boot Key Mooring field right now and have seen quite a few boats on the moorings that would have been considered derelict boats if they had been anchored. I guess the fact they're making their monthly payment makes it ok for the authority's? I personally have no problem with what some people would consider a derelict boat, as long as it's being used.

The problem is that derelict boats isn't the same as "boats that don't look tidy".
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Old 01-01-2015, 16:20   #345
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Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

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BandB,
Somebody's pushing this, quite a few somebody's I believe, and it's those that I refer to as "those people". I know it's not all waterfront landowners, I bet they are a minority, but it's probably not the people that live where a boat can't be seen is it? With the exception of the person who you said was trying to make a make a name for themselves, it's just not logical for someone to push for a law that has no effect on them.

If it doesn't do away with anchoring in an area, how could a mooring field solve the derelict boat issue, or even have any effect?
The problem is there are many issues at play. I believe the group wanting to do something is very large and I'm part of that group. I believe the group looking for an extreme position is small but gets attention. And they all have different reasons. I was talking to one older man and he just thought the proposal made was fine until I asked him how long a football field was. Then he mumbled something about idiots saying 300'.

I think some do not realize derelict boats and the rest of the anchoring regs are two separate issues.

I don't see mooring fields as a major solution, but done right an added nicety. If it leads to some better facilities for cruisers then it could be a plus. But I don't see such a number of mooring fields to be added as to change the cruising world.

I've tried just to look at the pieces of it most important to me. Three really. I do want to see a means of removing derelict boats simply. Second, I want to see the municipalities limited. Third, I don't want what I consider outrageous distances like 300'.

One other misconception. I've read comments that the marina industry wants anchoring eliminated so people will get slips. I have not talked to a single person in the industry who felt that way. Most don't want anything done that might reduce the people coming to Florida. I did talk to one who did have an issue he wanted fixed. That is the problem he was having with boats anchoring so close to his entrance.
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