What is the current FL anchoring policy?

[Julie Mor]

Originally Posted by Neeltje

Do you honestly think that Florida would risk alienating even a small portion of it's major income source to please a few waterfront property owners here and there?

I think most today know that political contributions to campaign war chests influence the politicians' decisions more than outcries from the general public. One percent of the population own 50% of the wealth. Politicians know this and they respond accordingly, always putting their best interest first. If the uber-wealthy want to change the anchoring policy bad enough, the politicians will abide them.

But for now, I think it's important for cruisers to know the law. The survey posted earlier included information as to what the law is today and possible changes. Things like the definition of a derelict boat are good to know. Someone can't just dislike the look of your boat and claim it's derelict and demand it be removed from their sight (though this is how many interpret it). It has to fit the definition. But if you don't know the definition and cave to their demands, they win and that may set a dangerous precedent.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Interesting reading, and I'm pretty impressed with those regulations. I'm still maintaining that the derelict vessels portion, and even the "pre-derelict" portion can be enacted without giving all municipalities in Florida authority to specify/regulate all the anchorages in the state.

The part that concerns me is the restriction of anchorages outside of the designated/limited mooring field. You just know that each municipality is going to see this as an opportunity to restrict anchoring to whatever section of sand they feel like, you know, for environmental and public safety reasons. Every waterfront restaurant, hotel, or homeowner is going to think that it's in the public safety good that mooring be restricted to someone else's vista.

If you are really into pain, further reading can be had at:

Monroe County, FL - Official Website - Mooring Field Initiative

These studies/surveys give an sense of what drove the regulations. Noteworthy is how long this has been going on.

This newspaper article from Sarasota describes stored boats being used as flop houses.

Change afoot for Sarasota Bay sailors | HeraldTribune.com

Sarasota requires a demonstration that the vessel is in condition for navigation, proven every 90 days. Also, if the mooring field is full, the 90 day anchoring restriction outside the mooring field is lifted until there is a mooring ball available. IMO, I don't see how this is detrimental to the 'cruiser'.

A 2013 FWC report on the Pilot Program

http://myfwc.com/media/2704721/Findi...mendations.pdf

To your point, I was trying to find a copy of the proceedings during the Stuart ordinance phase where the city had proposed a 1000' buffer around the mooring field. FWC took them to task and it's now 150' buffer. Hence, my belief that FWC is on the boater's side of the issue.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by DotDun

A boat owner paying money to government is a taxpayer, hence I think we're saying the same thing.

You are correct, some of boat registration fees go back to the counties to be used (328.72 (15)):



Hence, money spent for derelict removal takes money from other projects. It's not 'saved' for the sole purpose of derelict removal. Example: A county budgets for a new boat ramp next year expecting $xx from vessel registrations. Ah crap, we had to remove 12 derelicts so the boat ramp has to wait. Point: I wouldn't go as far as to claim there is plenty of money to deal with derelict vessels.

And yes, there is the FWC grant program to pay for derelict removal when the county can't.

The whole point is why doesn't the owner of the vessel have to pay??

Again, a vessel is not derelict until (823.11):



Quite subjective to determine when a vessel is derelict. Hence, having a mooring agreement that includes additional requirements allows (future) derelicts to be dealt with prior to meeting the above guidelines.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just repeating the claims.

You might have a point about using these funds for derelict boat removal would in fact use monies that might well be used for other purposes. If only we could see that the money was in fact being used for the boating items specified in 328.72 part 15. My home county hasn't built a new boat ramp in a number of years, yet they get the registration money every year. Several existing ramps could use some maintenance, but that's not happening either. If you look at the county budget there's not a line item for boating projects, nor is there a line item for the revenue. There's a big lump category of "other" that seems to be dumped into general revenue. I suspect that is also how it's treated.

[RTB]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Maybe cruisers should head for the Lonely Star state.... :roll eyes:

Ya'll come on over. Nice and friendly too, but a bit chilly for my liking right now. Gas prices now under $2.00/gallon. Diesel is cheap too.

See you Florida cruisers in the spring. For now, have a Merry Christmas.

Ralph

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by DotDun

A boat owner paying money to government is a taxpayer, ..............

Not necessarily. A boat owner paying taxes to a government is a taxpayer. A boat owner paying mooring or docking fees to the government is paying for services, not paying taxes.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Not necessarily. A boat owner paying taxes to a government is a taxpayer. A boat owner paying mooring or docking fees to the government is paying for services, not paying taxes.

Please don't take posts out of context. The conversation centered on vessel registration fees, no mention of mooring/docking fees. I was responding to:

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

......

The issue of derelict boats is a bit of a red herring as well. The state of Florida already has plenty of laws and Money to deal with derelict boats. Each county is supposed to get a share of the boat registration money for boats in that county. In 2013 the amount should have been about 8 million dollars. One of the specific uses permitted for this money is removal of derelict boats. Oddly enough though I've been trying to find out what this money is being used for (the county is required to make an annual report to the FWC) as it is only allowed to be used for specific boating related things. The thing I find odd is that all of the counties seem to be applying for FWC grants from the state portion of the registration fees for derelict boat removal. Read Florida statute 328.72 for details. Section 1 tells you how much the county gets for each class of boat registered and section 15 tells you what those county funds can be used for. I brought this law to the attention of the SSCA and no one at this point has been able to find out what this money is being used for or find the annual reports. Some counties which should be getting $3-400,000/yr from the boat registration fees and are begging for one time $50,000 grants from the FWC out of the state funds for derelict boat removal. I can't help but wonder where the county money went. Several people have bemoaned the fact that the poor tax payers are being stuck with the cost of derelict boat removal. The fact of the matter is that general tax payers are not getting stuck with the cost of derelict removal, boaters are. This derelict boat stuff is just so much BS.

[Capt Robert]

FWA just completed 2nd public survey in this contentious issue. i put my two cents in, hope you did too. waterfront home owners are pressuring state reps to allow local control over anchoring. that will surely mean NO ANCHOR ZONES around state, which would discourages boaters from coming here. standby for more.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Capt Robert

FWA just completed 2nd public survey in this contentious issue. i put my two cents in, hope you did too. waterfront home owners are pressuring state reps to allow local control over anchoring. that will surely mean NO ANCHOR ZONES around state, which would discourages boaters from coming here. standby for more.

Who is FWA?

[rwidman]

I just don't understand why letsgetsailing3 and some others think they have the right to just plop their boat down anywhere and store it or live on it. You can't do that on land.

Perhaps these folks have been getting away with it for years and fear that they will eventually have to contribute.

[smj]

Originally Posted by rwidman

I just don't understand why letsgetsailing3 and some others think they have the right to just plop their boat down anywhere and store it or live on it. You can't do that on land.

Perhaps these folks have been getting away with it for years and fear that they will eventually have to contribute.

That my friend has been the beauty and the spirit behind cruising. I guess some people are jealous and now want to change it.

[RTB]

Originally Posted by rwidman

I just don't understand why letsgetsailing3 and some others think they have the right to just plop their boat down anywhere and store it or live on it. You can't do that on land.

Perhaps these folks have been getting away with it for years and fear that they will eventually have to contribute.

Yep. Sold my home, live on our boat, and cruise where we want (an contribute where ever we go). We pay sales tax on dockage, provisions, marine supplies, meals at restaurants, fuel.....besides supporting the local economy. I've said it before, the only bad attitudes I have seen, are here on the forum.


It's the United States of America, bud. The land on the "free" and the home of the "brave". What's it like in your world?

Ralph

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by RTB

....... We pay sales tax on dockage, provisions, marine supplies, meals at restaurants, fuel.....besides supporting the local economy. ......

That's what we do when we cruise. And the marina fees are covering the marina's property tax and employees who pay tax.

My comment was for those who expect to anchor anywhere for free, get water for free, and have the taxpayers haul away their trash and garbage. And most likely they are not getting pump-outs, they are dumping their sewage overboard at night.

[smj]

I'm all for anchoring for free but have no problem paying for dinghy dockage, water, pump outs etc

[bob_77903]

Originally Posted by rwidman

My comment was for those who expect to anchor anywhere for free, get water for free, and have the taxpayers haul away their trash and garbage. And most likely they are not getting pump-outs, they are dumping their sewage overboard at night.

I believe the vast majority, perhaps all off the posters on this forum, would like to see those boaters you are mentioning either educated to the proper behavior for boaters, or removed from their boats. I personally haven't seen that behavior from cruising sailors in my many visits and stays in Florida.

The only boaters in Florida I have seen trashing the environment, have been riffraff on barnacle buckets.

[RTB]

Originally Posted by rwidman

That's what we do when we cruise. And the marina fees are covering the marina's property tax and employees who pay tax.

My comment was for those who expect to anchor anywhere for free, get water for free, and have the taxpayers haul away their trash and garbage. And most likely they are not getting pump-outs, they are dumping their sewage overboard at night.

So, I guess I don't "get it"? You never anchor out? What the heck kind of cruiser are you?

We anchor when and where we can (for free). It's really not a problem offloading trash, getting a pump out, and filling the water tanks when stopping for fuel. Sometimes, it is even worth a paying for a night at a marina to get this accomplished. That's what cruisers do (if you ever go cruising, you just might understand). Many, many days while cruising, there are no marinas. Yes...even in Florida.


Where should I take a marina on the Little Shark River, or Indian Key (or Russell Pass)?

I don't think the Publix has a problem (and appreciates) taking my money when we are anchored at South Beach, or the north Lake Worth anchorage. Free dinghy dock at south beach across the street from Publix. Free dinghy landing on the beach at N. Lake Worth. I could go on and on, but why bother? You don't seem to know much about cruising, or in fact, the people that call themselves cruisers.

Ralph