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Old 11-11-2019, 16:22   #1
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Well Done Norway! US Navy take notes!

Less than a year after the Navy collision with a Tanker, an excellent report and lessons for all of us is produced.
Video definitely worth watching

https://gcaptain.com/investigation-v...on-must-watch/
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Old 11-11-2019, 17:36   #2
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Re: Well Done Norway! US Navy take notes!

Pretty vague set of recommendations. That said the investigation seems thorough and touched on all of the conditions that created this "perfect storm."
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Old 11-11-2019, 21:22   #3
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Re: Well Done Norway! US Navy take notes!

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Pretty vague set of recommendations. That said the investigation seems thorough and touched on all of the conditions that created this "perfect storm."
I thought from the 5:27 point of video.... the analysis of communication failures and just a few of the 15 safety and procedural recommendations were on the mark.

Also the lady at the 0:47 point analyzing the lack of experience on the Frigate which she feels contributed to a fixed mindset of situational awareness as opposed to an experienced watch keeper who continually proves his understanding of the situation, is a great reminder to all of us.

VTS seemed to be pretty slack....maybe intimidated in reporting Navy Ship location

I was surprised that a Secureté alert from the Tanker getting underway was not part of the recommendations. In similar terrain in BC Canada, that is a standard call when the big guys move, specifically because of their working lights.
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Old 11-11-2019, 23:20   #4
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Re: Well Done Norway! US Navy take notes!

I agree the recommendations are very vague. I am also surprised there was no mention of the radio communication, which I thought was very poor and imprecise.

Imagine if the pilot had said,

Helge Ingstad, this is Sola TS. We are on a collision course. Turn to starboard immediately.

Or something to that effect. Or if VTS had done something similar.
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Old 12-11-2019, 00:31   #5
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Re: Well Done Norway! US Navy take notes!

it is simply Always the same. the old saying prooves itself Right every and every time again:
"the sea is your friend - but the second you dont respect it - it kills you"!

in other words - every time People traveling at sea become careless, something will go wrong. It happens to me all the time. the Moment I get lazy and think "ah.. it will work out"... it does not. something breaks. it will cost money, time and sometimes it hurts.
I was lucky that I never experienced severe Damage so far.
never think "ahh.. it will work out". ALLWAYS check and double check. just MAKE SURE.

the guy on watch beeing convinced that solas decklights were at shore.. how?
just MAKE SURE.
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Old 12-11-2019, 09:13   #6
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Re: Well Done Norway! US Navy take notes!

Part of the problem, alluded to in the video, is that we don't have sailors operating these vessels, which are becoming floating computers. Put any old salt on board, and this stuff would never happen. These guys need to take their eyes off their screens and visit the real world... a persistent problem in today's society.
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Old 12-11-2019, 09:24   #7
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Re: Well Done Norway! US Navy take notes!

Tanker: "Solas TS" is registered in Malta

Frigate: “KNM Helge Ingstad” is a Norwegian Navy vessel.

Could you elaborate on how the US is involved and "should be taking notes"?
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Old 12-11-2019, 10:04   #8
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Re: Well Done Norway! US Navy take notes!

It would appear those glaring deck lights were a contributing factor.
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Old 12-11-2019, 10:10   #9
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Re: Well Done Norway! US Navy take notes!

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Originally Posted by carlheintz View Post
Part of the problem, alluded to in the video, is that we don't have sailors operating these vessels, which are becoming floating computers. Put any old salt on board, and this stuff would never happen. These guys need to take their eyes off their screens and visit the real world... a persistent problem in today's society.


Boats and ships have been colliding since boats and ships have plied the seas. They are also bigger, faster and have much smaller compliment of crew than ever in history. I beg to argue that shipping is more hazardous than in the old salt days. It comes down to human error and judgement. One should use all of the tools available to convey oneself through life’s hazards.
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Old 12-11-2019, 10:10   #10
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Re: Well Done Norway! US Navy take notes!

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Tanker: "Solas TS" is registered in Malta

Frigate: “KNM Helge Ingstad” is a Norwegian Navy vessel.

Could you elaborate on how the US is involved and "should be taking notes"?
I am only guessing but perhaps it was a reference to the collisions the U.S. Navy had recently. I am also thinking that the causes in this accident were similar to those that contributed to the aforementioned U.S. accidents.
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Old 12-11-2019, 12:21   #11
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Re: Well Done Norway! US Navy take notes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrew View Post
Tanker: "Solas TS" is registered in Malta

Frigate: “KNM Helge Ingstad” is a Norwegian Navy vessel.

Could you elaborate on how the US is involved and "should be taking notes"?
I am comparing the openness and efficiency of the Norwegian investigation which benefitted ALL..


.....to the Fitz and McCain secretive closed door investigation where they intimidated local juristiction and expert opinions from conducting an open public investigation into the cause.

That form of arrogance in a non combative situation, is counterproductive to safety at sea
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Old 12-11-2019, 12:49   #12
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Re: Well Done Norway! US Navy take notes!

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It would appear those glaring deck lights were a contributing factor.
That is quite normal when ships first get underway at night to have crew still working on deck, getting ready for sea

Also common is that the ships navigation lights are lost in the background clutter of shore lights when leaving a large commercial dock .

The obvious failure in this collision, was the lack of and vague communication between the Tanker Pilot/ Vessel Traffic Services / and the young navy crew.

VTS was not on the ball!

Have seen similar situations handled far more professionally many times during my career at sea.

1. Pilot of Large ship makes a securité call that they are getting underway from a heavily backlit dock

2. At time of tanker departure VTS gives them list of approaching vessels

4. Quite normal and prudent for VTS to have called navy ship that was not transmitting AIS to confirm that they were aware of Tanker now underway.

5.VTS who SHOULD have continued to track Navy ship that had registered their presence at a "call in point".....

Should have called them again to warn them of the imminent danger and give them clear avoidance instructions.


None of this was difficult or challenging...

VTS failed to support the two vessels and both pilot and navy watchkeeper were sloppy in their communications by failing to establish identity and relational aspects
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Old 12-11-2019, 13:15   #13
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Re: Well Done Norway! US Navy take notes!

Here in Norway we are following the press conference and interviews closely.

The lady fram Havarikommisjonen pointed out the lack of experience contributed strongly to the incident. Mistaking a tanker for a terminal on land seems to be the single misunderstanding that happened. Turning to starboard was not an option as the crew was of the opinion that the land was quite close. This misconception persisted until 30 sec before the collision, cognitive bias. This was one of the statements from the press conference.

The reports can be found here: https://www.aibn.no/Sjofart/Avgitte-rapporter/2019-08 .
They state that reports are also available in English translation. The average age on the bridge was somewhat over 22 years. The private at the wheel was said to have the best overview of the situation, but he trusted that the officers had full control and saw no reason to raise any alarm.

It is actually quite embarrassing the whole thing.

Best regards,
Ole

PS: We met TS Sola in the greater belt sound in Denmark this summer, we passed her with great respect.
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Old 12-11-2019, 13:52   #14
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Re: Well Done Norway! US Navy take notes!

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The obvious failure in this collision, was the lack of and vague communication between the Tanker Pilot/ Vessel Traffic Services / and the young navy crew.
One glance at the AIS and the Fregatte would have known what is around, wouldn't it? AIS is also mentioned in the (excellent) video.
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Old 12-11-2019, 13:59   #15
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Re: Well Done Norway! US Navy take notes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
That is quite normal when ships first get underway at night to have crew still working on deck, getting ready for sea

Also common is that the ships navigation lights are lost in the background clutter of shore lights when leaving a large commercial dock .

The obvious failure in this collision, was the lack of and vague communication between the Tanker Pilot/ Vessel Traffic Services / and the young navy crew.

VTS was not on the ball!

Have seen similar situations handled far more professionally many times during my career at sea.

1. Pilot of Large ship makes a securité call that they are getting underway from a heavily backlit dock

2. At time of tanker departure VTS gives them list of approaching vessels

4. Quite normal and prudent for VTS to have called navy ship that was not transmitting AIS to confirm that they were aware of Tanker now underway.

5.VTS who SHOULD have continued to track Navy ship that had registered their presence at a "call in point".....

Should have called them again to warn them of the imminent danger and give them clear avoidance instructions.


None of this was difficult or challenging...

VTS failed to support the two vessels and both pilot and navy watchkeeper were sloppy in their communications by failing to establish identity and relational aspects
I don't disagree. Time is money but maybe getting ready for sea, should be done prior to leaving the dock and not having deck lights obscuring navigational
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