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Old 12-11-2012, 17:10   #16
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Re: Warning - DOCUMENT YOUR BOAT! and request for advice

Well the first thing I would do is change marinas- yesterday.
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Old 12-11-2012, 17:11   #17
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Re: Warning - DOCUMENT YOUR BOAT! and request for advice

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I'm curious why the OP thinks that documentation would have negated his current problem. Scam artists could still put a lien on a documented boat, could they not?

In most states, registering a boat isn't at all like registering a car, and a lien is a lien. I think he's saying that if your boat is documented, it's harder to snatch.
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Old 12-11-2012, 17:23   #18
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Re: Warning - DOCUMENT YOUR BOAT! and request for advice

In Wa where the OP is it should be registered AND Documented and it's just one more layer the guy would have to go through. the OP would have *something* saying the boat was legally his.
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Old 12-11-2012, 17:36   #19
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Re: Warning - DOCUMENT YOUR BOAT! and request for advice

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In Wa where the OP is it should be registered AND Documented and it's just one more layer the guy would have to go through. the OP would have *something* saying the boat was legally his.

Exactly. It would probably be a good idea in Florida. In Florida, you can go in and claim the boat is unregistered, or the owner died, and get away with it.
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Old 12-11-2012, 17:38   #20
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Re: Warning - DOCUMENT YOUR BOAT! and request for advice

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I believe the comment was made from a 'stand your ground' Florida perspective, in which case there would be no felony.
Thanks you are quite right it was in reference to Florida. Other states may differ.
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Old 12-11-2012, 18:16   #21
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Re: Warning - DOCUMENT YOUR BOAT! and request for advice

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Counseling to commit a felony is a felony.
Maybe in Canada.
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Old 12-11-2012, 19:17   #22
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Re: Warning - DOCUMENT YOUR BOAT! and request for advice

Is Sammy the Bull available or is he still locked up?
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Old 12-11-2012, 19:22   #23
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Re: Warning - DOCUMENT YOUR BOAT! and request for advice

here in florida, 'stand your ground' means just that; you can pretty much shoot anyone dead if they attempt to enter your home without your permission. in reality, you'd better be able to show that you felt threatened. incredibly, the same rule applies outside your home but again, you need to show that you were actually in fear of your life. we've had some interesting cases here in the last few years and the law has been pretty much upheld.

i think that rule 'counseling to commit a felony' may apply in canada but i've never heard of it here.

still, i think mimsy had the best advice. get out of town. or at least get the boat of town. maybe get it hauled out in a yard in canada. when you're dealing with a crazy you need to think like a crazy...
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Old 12-11-2012, 20:44   #24
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Re: Warning - DOCUMENT YOUR BOAT! and request for advice

It is even easier to lien a documented vessel, print out the form on line and send it in to the Coast Guard. That is it.
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Old 12-11-2012, 20:47   #25
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Re: Warning - DOCUMENT YOUR BOAT! and request for advice

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It is even easier to lien a documented vessel, print out the form on line and send it in to the Coast Guard. That is it.
Yeah, but that doesn't transfer it in your name.
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Old 12-11-2012, 22:10   #26
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Re: Warning - DOCUMENT YOUR BOAT! and request for advice

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Yeah, but that doesn't transfer it in your name.
Yes, I believe documentation would provide a layer of protection - even if not perfect. To put a lien is not the same as getting the registration with no legal process whatsoever, which is what this guy did. The DOL (dept. of licensing) gave him the registration based on vapor - totally illegitimate "lien" that went through no legal process other than being recorded at the recorders office, and you can "record" ANYTHING

I don't believe the USCG would give people's boat's away like that

?!! If anyone thinks otherwise, please advise! Does the USCG allow for bogus liens which are not even sent to the person the bogus lien is against and then hand over title?

Of course changing marinas to get away from a criminal is always possible - but there are very few liveaboard marinas out here and the state is cutting the allowable number of slips. There are none as nice or convenient as this one, where my friends are too. Everyone in the marina wants the guy gone.
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Old 12-11-2012, 22:29   #27
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Re: Warning - DOCUMENT YOUR BOAT! and request for advice

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Buy a gun and keep it on your boat once you can get back legally on the boat. If he comes on board or threatens you shoot him. I would continue with your suit but thats me. He sounds like a bully.
Yeah, kill a guy over a boat.
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Old 12-11-2012, 22:43   #28
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Re: Warning - DOCUMENT YOUR BOAT! and request for advice

As annoying is the fees may be, I would stick with an attorney. This is exactly the kind of situation where advice of expert counsel is both important and necessary. You may try to find a more reasonably priced attorney, however. Weigh the cost of the attorney against the cost of losing your boat. Do not assume that you will be able to proceed pro se successfully, even with some advice. I've seen scams like this and it's amazing how quickly they find some crackpot and lawyer up and screw you over as soon as they see you appear without a lawyer. Some of the members of the profession make me sick.

Note also that you cannot have a law student or anyone else (e.g., a paralegal) not admitted to the WA bar do this work for you (it is illegal for them to do so -- called the unauthorized practice of law -- and the law student could get permanently barred from ever practicing). Let me repeat: the unauthorized practice of law is a crime in Washington. You cannot even have them help you for free. Heck, if I'm admitted in New York I couldn't even do it for you in WA!

I would also, this week immediately, ask your attorney what he thinks about reaching out to Dan Satterberg's office. Satterberg is a fine county PA, and he's got a specific interest in fraud crimes like this one. I wouldn't be as concerned for your safety as you make out -- once the PA gets involved the police start to become interested in protecting you.

NOTE: while I live in Seattle and have passed the bar in New York, I am not admitted to practice in the State of Washington.
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Old 12-11-2012, 23:02   #29
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Re: Warning - DOCUMENT YOUR BOAT! and request for advice

You bought the boat in your name….Yes?
You got a signed receipt from Auctioneer in your name… Yes?
The other guy has no receipt proving he gave you the money to buy the boat on his behalf/ yes or no?

Perhaps I am missing something here
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Old 12-11-2012, 23:05   #30
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Re: Warning - DOCUMENT YOUR BOAT! and request for advice

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You bought the boat in your name….Yes?
You got a signed receipt from Auctioneer in your name… Yes?
The other guy has no receipt proving he gave you the money to buy the boat on his behalf/ yes or no?

Perhaps I am missing something here
Other guy committed fraud and conversion. It doesn't take a genius to see that. But getting the courts to agree with you on the matter is not as easy as it sounds.

Our legal system is stacked in favor of letting each party get its chance to be heard (in layman's terms this is what "due process" basically means). Your right to be heard in court is still a Constitutional right, even if you are full of ****.
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