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Old 09-03-2013, 15:25   #1
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VAT Buying a boat advice required. (No evidence)

Trying to buy a boat.

The boat is currently in EU waters however owner can not prove a "VAT Paid" (Import Duty) Status.

Boat originated and was made outside of EU to his knowledge he is the second owner he purchased it and brought it into EU water in 2006/2007 he has proof of purchase.

The boat was manufactured in 2001, but is currently on the UK ships small ships register.

The first owner had the boat registered under a american company and no VAT is stated on the "Bill of purchase" that the current owner has.

It is over 6 years since the boat has been in EU waters so if he has not paid VAT on the boat he has been lucky to not have been asked, the problem lies: If he has paid "Import Duty VAT" the EU country it is currently in; like most only keep there records for 6 years on file so he is unable to get proof that it is paid.

Is there absolutely any other way that we can prove that the Import Duty has been paid on the boat? As if I buy from him without anything and then sail into another country they may ask for Import Duty to be paid again.

How can I cover myself?, Any advice would be appreciated.
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Old 09-03-2013, 15:31   #2
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Re: VAT Buying a boat advice required. (No evidence)

Where is the boat now, where is it going, where will it be registered? All your questions are specific to the situation and countries/states involved.

VAT (sales tax in US/Canada) and import duty (customs) are different things and are managed by different, often overlapping, rules.

One thing almost certain ... if you have no proof that VAT/tax/duty was paid ... it was not paid (at least in the eye of government). Factor that in the cost of buying that boat.
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Old 09-03-2013, 15:54   #3
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Re: VAT Buying a boat advice required. (No evidence)

vat has been around for a lot longer than 6 years in europe,and since it was a non eu boat to start with you would think the owner would keep his vat receipt with his proof of purchase if it was ever paid......don't walk ....Run...or adjust the price accordingly.
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Old 09-03-2013, 15:55   #4
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Re: VAT Buying a boat advice required. (No evidence)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_W View Post
Where is the boat now, where is it going, where will it be registered? All your questions are specific to the situation and countries/states involved.

VAT (sales tax in US/Canada) and import duty (customs) are different things and are managed by different, often overlapping, rules.
The boat is currently in Portugal we are wanting to keep it in Europe and European waters visiting countries within Europe.

The boat was constructed in Montenegro and for the first 4 years stayed there.

The second (now current owner) sailed it into a European port in 2006/2007 where it has stayed since its arrival.

Maybe I am getting confused about which needs proof of payment and what needs paid. Am I right he should have paid import duty on his arrival into Portugal? not VAT. which he actually says he has paid but does not have proof.
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Old 09-03-2013, 16:00   #5
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Re: VAT Buying a boat advice required. (No evidence)

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
vat has been around for a lot longer than 6 years in europe,and since it was a non eu boat to start with you would think the owner would keep his vat receipt with his proof of purchase if it was ever paid......don't walk ....Run...or adjust the price accordingly.
Yes agree but records with for example HMRC are only legally meant to be kept for 6 years.

What happens if you lost your bit of paper? how could you prove you have paid it?
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Old 09-03-2013, 16:02   #6
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Re: VAT Buying a boat advice required. (No evidence)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zooplax View Post
The boat is currently in Portugal we are wanting to keep it in Europe and European waters visiting countries within Europe.

The boat was constructed in Montenegro and for the first 4 years stayed there.

The second (now current owner) sailed it into a European port in 2006/2007 where it has stayed since its arrival.

Maybe I am getting confused about which needs proof of payment and what needs paid. Am I right he should have paid import duty on his arrival into Portugal? not VAT. which he actually says he has paid but does not have proof.
in 2006 he would have to had paid both import duty,and vat....so i'm calling BS on the part of the owner
both import duty and the vat payment would have been on the same form/reciept issued by the customs.

if however he did pay somthing this shoud be fairly easy to trace via his agent that would have dealt with the customs dept
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Old 09-03-2013, 16:07   #7
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Re: VAT Buying a boat advice required. (No evidence)

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in 2006 he would have to had paid both import duty,and vat....so i'm calling BS on the part of the owner
:-) I know what you mean I am just trying to work out if there is any other way of proving it.. if said piece of paper was lost?, could you prove it was paid any other-way, what would a customs official accept as proof?

Do you have to pay VAT on a boat sale between two private individuals? surely there would be no VAT due only import duty due as its a used boat.

And what % would import duty be on this?
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Old 09-03-2013, 16:16   #8
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Re: VAT Buying a boat advice required. (No evidence)

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:-) I know what you mean I am just trying to work out if there is any other way of proving it.. if said piece of paper was lost?, could you prove it was paid any other-way, what would a customs official accept as proof?
They most certainly would accept any official document, or a legal copy of it ... the seller statement does not count. His only option is to adjusted the asking price accordingly or produce the proof. Do not make it into your problem by wishful thinking.
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Old 09-03-2013, 16:17   #9
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Re: VAT Buying a boat advice required. (No evidence)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zooplax View Post
:-) I know what you mean I am just trying to work out if there is any other way of proving it.. if said piece of paper was lost?, could you prove it was paid any other-way, what would a customs official accept as proof?

Do you have to pay VAT on a boat sale between two private individuals? surely there would be no VAT due only import duty due as its a used boat.

And what % would import duty be on this?
montenegro is not part of the eu,so import duty And vat would have been liable in 2006,as they still are now.
the valuation will be by the customs,which will reflect the boats "used "condition

an official customs recipt of payment of duties on goods is the standard format

at a guess it would be liable for 7% import duty and 17% vat
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Old 09-03-2013, 16:33   #10
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Re: VAT Buying a boat advice required. (No evidence)

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
montenegro is not part of the eu,so import duty And vat would have been liable in 2006,as they still are now.
the valuation will be by the customs,which will reflect the boats "used "condition

an official customs recipt of payment of duties on goods is the standard format

at a guess it would be liable for 7% import duty and 17% vat
Would that be of the value of the boat in 2006 or now? 2006 I presume...
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Old 09-03-2013, 16:35   #11
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Re: VAT Buying a boat advice required. (No evidence)

OP says the vessel is on the UK Small Ships Register. I don't think that could have happened without proof of VAT paid.
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Old 09-03-2013, 16:36   #12
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Re: VAT Buying a boat advice required. (No evidence)

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Would that be of the value of the boat in 2006 or now? 2006 I presume...
i would guess now unless they imposed a fine as well for tax evasion!
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Old 09-03-2013, 16:37   #13
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Re: VAT Buying a boat advice required. (No evidence)

Make proof of VAT payment a contingiency on the deal and make sure it's in the sales agreement. I did the same on a company owned vessel located in Guernsey 18 months ago, and surprise, surprise... The owner refused to sign the agreement. Actually, have your broker ask for proof that all property taxes and duties have also been paid.

Be very suspicious. Personally, after having dealt with this B.S. myself... Start looking for a different boat.
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Old 09-03-2013, 16:39   #14
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Re: VAT Buying a boat advice required. (No evidence)

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OP says the vessel is on the UK Small Ships Register. I don't think that could have happened without proof of VAT paid.
small ships register requires no docmentation apart from a bill of sale/deletion of prev reg,and is not considered proof of ownership
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Old 09-03-2013, 16:50   #15
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Re: VAT Buying a boat advice required. (No evidence)

While were on the purchasing subject:

1, What proves that a boat is registered by someone would there original Bill of Sale show this?

2, How would you find out if there is any outstanding finance on a boat your buying?
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