VAT Buying a boat advice required. (No evidence)

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by atoll

small ships register requires no docmentation apart from a bill of sale/deletion of prev reg,and is not considered proof of ownership

Would the UK government really let someone register a boat without asking them to prove that the boat had been legally (taxes paid) imported.
Not arguing, just seems really dumb.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by zooplax

While were on the purchasing subject:

1, What proves that a boat is registered by someone would there original Bill of Sale show this?

2, How would you find out if there is any outstanding finance on a boat your buying?

a bill of sale is considered proff of ownership if it is notarised.

generally if finance owed the company concerned will put a writ on the mast,and chain it to the dock,but you purchase agreement should state that the vessel is"free from encumberences,liens and loans"

[Kenomac]

You should be asking your broker these questions. If you don't have a broker, you should contact one to find out if they can represent you as a buyers broker.

It seems to me it will be in your best interest to put someone who knows what they're doing between you and the seller, rather than relying on free advice via the internet. My two cents.

An unpaid VAT can come back and bite you in the a$$.

[Richard_W]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Would the UK government really let someone register a boat without asking them to prove that the boat had been legally (taxes paid) imported.
Not arguing, just seems really dumb.

Why not ... same in Canada ...

There is no requirement to present import/duty/PST/GST/HST proof of payment when registering (licensing in Canadian lingo) boat with the TC in Canada. The transfer of ownership on deed/title or bill of sale is all what is required.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Would the UK government really let someone register a boat without asking them to prove that the boat had been legally (taxes paid) imported.
Not arguing, just seems really dumb.

not with part1 uk registration

,ssr or part 3 was set up by the rya as an easy /cheap way of creating a document for cruising outside uk waters in the 1970's that was acceptable in europe for pleasure boaters.
it clearly states that it is not "proof of ownership" on the certificate

[atoll]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Would the UK government really let someone register a boat without asking them to prove that the boat had been legally (taxes paid) imported.
Not arguing, just seems really dumb.

here it is from the horses mouth!
if you are interested,explains part1 and part3

Registering your pleasure craft | nidirect

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by zooplax

Trying to buy a boat.

The boat is currently in EU waters however owner can not prove a "VAT Paid" (Import Duty) Status.

Boat originated and was made outside of EU to his knowledge he is the second owner he purchased it and brought it into EU water in 2006/2007 he has proof of purchase.

The boat was manufactured in 2001, but is currently on the UK ships small ships register.

The first owner had the boat registered under a american company and no VAT is stated on the "Bill of purchase" that the current owner has.

It is over 6 years since the boat has been in EU waters so if he has not paid VAT on the boat he has been lucky to not have been asked, the problem lies: If he has paid "Import Duty VAT" the EU country it is currently in; like most only keep there records for 6 years on file so he is unable to get proof that it is paid.

Is there absolutely any other way that we can prove that the Import Duty has been paid on the boat? As if I buy from him without anything and then sail into another country they may ask for Import Duty to be paid again.

How can I cover myself?, Any advice would be appreciated.

Has the boat got Portuguese registration... would have thought that a requirement if its bern imported into the country.
If he has no proof and none can be supplied and you still wish to buy it I would suggest you forget Portugal itself for EVA @ 23%(VAT).. sail her to Horta and do it there.. was 15%.. may have gone up to 16%. I would however stick with the SSR... assuming you have a UK address and keep her in Portugal for a while.

[zooplax]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Has the boat got Portuguese registration... would have thought that a requirement if its bern imported into the country.
If he has no proof and none can be supplied and you still wish to buy it I would suggest you forget Portugal itself for EVA @ 23%(VAT).. sail her to Horta and do it there.. was 15%.. may have gone up to 16%. I would however stick with the SSR... assuming you have a UK address and keep her in Portugal for a while.

Portugal was its first port of entry into the EU and where it stayed since 2006/2007 where it should have paid VAT and import duty.

Owner was British hence how its registered on SSR.

Would Portugal presume it has a VAT Paid status as it was British registered? I cant imagine they would miss that one out.

Don't think the boat needs to be registered in the country of which you have to pay the import duty and VAT, I think its just the first port of entry into EU this is as far as I am aware, some one may be able to clarify this..

But do like the Horta suggestion Thanks :-)

[atoll]

if a boat is "in transit",and uk registered vat payment can be deferred till it reaches the uk,though this looks like a clear case of no vat ever being paid,and no way to prove that it has

[Richard_W]

This is all just a speculation, but it looks to me that the original buyer bought the boat in Montenegro, did not have to pay any taxes as the boat was purchased for export.

Then he registered the boat with British, no payment of taxes required nor duty fees as the boat was not imported to UK.

Then he sailed the British registered boat to visit Portugal. No duties or taxes paid as his boat was just visiting the Portugal ... never imported there.

Now comes YOU, the one who is really going to import that boat to Portugal or to anywhere else for the first time.

There is no doubt in my mind that the duty/VAT proof does not exist and the seller is trying to offload the responsibility of importing and paying duty/VAT as applicable onto YOU.

I also bet the price of the boat is too good to be true ... so it seems ...

Good luck!

[boatman61]

They would presume it... yes.. which is why I wonder about his claiming paying import tax. Most folk I know pay in Horta when they come into the EU.. makes Portugal very happy... the inspection is basic and bill of sale is accepted at face value.
I think your being blagged... knock off 15% the price and take her back to Horta.. my proofs of payment are gold.. like the bill of sale..

[zooplax]

Originally Posted by atoll

if a boat is "in transit",and uk registered vat payment can be deferred till it reaches the uk,though this looks like a clear case of no vat ever being paid,and no way to prove that it has

What is there to stop people from just visiting different countries continually or deffering payments till a boat eventually arrives in UK? Surly this can only be done for a maximum of 24 months.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Richard_W

Why not ... same in Canada ...

There is no requirement to present import/duty/PST/GST/HST proof of payment when registering (licensing in Canadian lingo) boat with the TC in Canada. The transfer of ownership on deed/title or bill of sale is all what is required.

Richard, thats not completely accurate. Revenue Canada does audit TC ships Registry and will come looking for you if they can't find a corresponding customs declaration. They are not very good at it and it often takes a few years. In one case I know of they came after a friend of mine seven years after the fact and in another case The RCMP showed up at an other friends door asking for proof 2 years later.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by zooplax

What is there to stop people from just visiting different countries continually or deffering payments till a boat eventually arrives in UK? Surly this can only be done for a maximum of 24 months.

mostly people get caught out when they haul the boat for the winter in the med,being "in transit" generally means that you haven't paid 6months or a years marina fees in advance!

often we like to think that customs officers are stupid....but in many cases they are not,and just doing their job

[boatman61]

Oh... one other small thing to check is.. is it CE certified... if not you'll bear the cost of getting it to meet the check.. last I heard (a while back) it was around £12,000.. in the UK.