Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-03-2015, 07:05   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Underway in the Med -
Boat: Jeanneau 40 DS SoulMates
Posts: 1,904
Images: 1
Re: USCG licence equivalent to ICC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ D View Post
Absolutely correct, ex-Calif. The license alone means nothing. (also, you can have all the ASA certs in the world and still not have a clue) We've kicked more than a few licensed guys off of our boats out here on the Bering Sea.

The non-sailing master I can understand, seeing as how the difference between sail and commercial is huge, but the pilot who couldn't fly is a bit disconcerting!

But for the purposes of this thread, I was just asking about the requirements over in Europe after learning about the ICC thing.

TJ

As above the ASA classes sufficed for Montenegro and we did not need to show anything in Croatia as I suspect that they thought well he came from Montenegro so they did the license check.

We have seen a number of EU boaters who have licenses and well can we say not sure where they got them as they don't have a clue. I did mention it at one marina and a local guy working there told me if I would give him 300euro and wait 2 weeks he would get me a license. I laughed and he said well some government officials are easier than others.

They really do not go into it, they just want to see the license. OHHH by the way they did give us a bit of a go on the ASA classes but accepted it. Had to go back with additional liability insurance and the real port captain was in instead of a clerk and he was a bit gruff on the ASA and asked how i got there and i told him i sailed and he said across the Atlantic and I said yes and suddenly his whole attitude changed.

Come on over it is great visiting but lousy sailing.
__________________

__________________
just our thoughts and opinions
chuck and svsoulmates
In Marmaris Turkey for the winter
chuckr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 07:16   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Alaska/Portugal
Boat: Custom 55
Posts: 680
Re: USCG licence equivalent to ICC?

Ex-Calif, your son might consider commercial fishing in AK for a career. I can assure you that we are most unequivocally not sitting on our butts and picking our noses out here counting sea time out here in the middle of the winter! We need licenses, but view the USCG process as just a necessary evil to deal with. Time on the water in difficult conditions is what generates competence, not some silly test.

So, we also have to demonstrate that we are worth our credentials. Most of the mates on the large, US flagged carriers are out of the maritime academies, and the certainly do have boathandling training on smaller vessels.

As to the seamanship to be found out here, these guys are some of the finest, most professional in the world. (ignore the TV show about the crabbers, they're not representative of the whole) You don't live for very long if you're not up to the task. Or keep your job, license or not...


TJ
__________________

__________________
TJ D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 07:28   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Alaska/Portugal
Boat: Custom 55
Posts: 680
Re: USCG licence equivalent to ICC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckr View Post
As above the ASA classes sufficed for Montenegro and we did not need to show anything in Croatia as I suspect that they thought well he came from Montenegro so they did the license check.

We have seen a number of EU boaters who have licenses and well can we say not sure where they got them as they don't have a clue. I did mention it at one marina and a local guy working there told me if I would give him 300euro and wait 2 weeks he would get me a license. I laughed and he said well some government officials are easier than others.

They really do not go into it, they just want to see the license. OHHH by the way they did give us a bit of a go on the ASA classes but accepted it. Had to go back with additional liability insurance and the real port captain was in instead of a clerk and he was a bit gruff on the ASA and asked how i got there and i told him i sailed and he said across the Atlantic and I said yes and suddenly his whole attitude changed.

Come on over it is great visiting but lousy sailing.
Thanks again, Chuck. We're still trying to sort out a rather difficult VAT question, so we don't know if we're going to be able to sail over or not. We've got some inquiries out there, but as you can see on another thread that we started, the answers that we're getting from the customs departments of 2 countries contradict each other.

We know the sailing in the Med sort of stinks, but I think that the places make up for it. We just did a little recon trip by land between St. Tropes and Rome, and can't wait to get over there by boat.

I noticed your location- We've had our eye on Tunisia as an option for getting out of the EU, but weren't sure about the situation on the ground there. Perhaps you wouldn't mind sharing your experience there? Also, how deep is the marina? (We draw 10 feet...)

Thanks, TJ
__________________
TJ D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 07:36   #19
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Re: USCG licence equivalent to ICC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ D View Post
Ex-Calif, your son might consider commercial fishing in AK for a career.
Hard life. Respect to you and your peers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ D View Post
I can assure you that we are most unequivocally not sitting on our butts and picking our noses out here counting sea time out here in the middle of the winter! We need licenses, but view the USCG process as just a necessary evil to deal with. Time on the water in difficult conditions is what generates competence, not some silly test.
Yup...

I wasn't intending to insult the "real" seaman. This was more aimed at the scrambled eggs hat, white shoe "professional" sailboat "captains" who got their license by faking their time at sea and taking a written test. They know who they are and I am sure they will respond with indignant outcry in a minute - LOL.

For some reason as a kid I always thought I would end up as a ferry driver in Sydney harbor or Pittwater.

Here's the boat that used to take me to school...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	mac1.jpg
Views:	54
Size:	77.5 KB
ID:	98239  
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 07:41   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Alaska/Portugal
Boat: Custom 55
Posts: 680
Re: USCG licence equivalent to ICC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Hard life. Respect to you and your peers...



Yup...

I wasn't intending to insult the "real" seaman. This was more aimed at the scrambled eggs hat, white shoe "professional" sailboat "captains" who got their license by faking their time at sea and taking a written test. They know who they are and I am sure they will respond with indignant outcry in a minute - LOL.

For some reason as a kid I always thought I would end up as a ferry driver in Sydney harbor or Pittwater.

Here's the boat that used to take me to school...

Funny you should mention those folks. We were just up here on the bridge having a chuckle about the guys on yachts who introduce themselves as 'Captain'. I've never heard a guy who's the real deal refer to himself in that way.

Uh oh, now I'm in for it right with you!

TJ
__________________
TJ D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 07:57   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Underway in the Med -
Boat: Jeanneau 40 DS SoulMates
Posts: 1,904
Images: 1
Re: USCG licence equivalent to ICC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ D View Post
Absolutely correct, ex-Calif. The license alone means nothing. (also, you can have all the ASA certs in the world and still not have a clue) We've kicked more than a few licensed guys off of our boats out here on the Bering Sea.

The non-sailing master I can understand, seeing as how the difference between sail and commercial is huge, but the pilot who couldn't fly is a bit disconcerting!

But for the purposes of this thread, I was just asking about the requirements over in Europe after learning about the ICC thing.

TJ

As above when we went into Montenegro they asked for my license and really all they want is a piece of official paper that says you did your work and I doubt they even know sailing endorsement or not. I had my ASA book that showed the classes I took and they accepted that and your credentials are way above mine.

A couple of asides. First I had to go back after getting a rider on my insurance for 1m euro liability. When I went back the clerk was out and the port captain was working and took my insurance and saw the ASA paperwork they had made a copy of and he was not exactly pleasant and asked how I got there and when I told him I sailed he said on a transport and I said no across the Atlantic. He said you sailed across the Atlantic and I said a person crossing. Suddenly we was very accepting and talked about his time on big ships, cruise ships, in and out of the USA and Caribbean. He had no issues after that with our qualifications.

Second we have seen more than a few Europeans with a license that have not a clue. When we were in Croatia at a marina I mentioned it to one of they guys working there after a boat came in and took for ever to med moor. He laughed and said if I would give him a couple of hundred euro and wait 2-3 weeks he would get me a license as there is always some government official that if very cooperative.

I don't think you will any problems.
__________________
just our thoughts and opinions
chuck and svsoulmates
In Marmaris Turkey for the winter
chuckr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 07:59   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Underway in the Med -
Boat: Jeanneau 40 DS SoulMates
Posts: 1,904
Images: 1
Re: USCG licence equivalent to ICC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ D View Post
Funny you should mention those folks. We were just up here on the bridge having a chuckle about the guys on yachts who introduce themselves as 'Captain'. I've never heard a guy who's the real deal refer to himself in that way.

Uh oh, now I'm in for it right with you!

TJ
We do not have a Captain on SoulMates. We have an Admiral and a bag carrying boat driver.
__________________
just our thoughts and opinions
chuck and svsoulmates
In Marmaris Turkey for the winter
chuckr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 08:15   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Alaska/Portugal
Boat: Custom 55
Posts: 680
Re: USCG licence equivalent to ICC?

Hi Chuck,

Mechanic and dish washer is my official title. Deck ape when underway.

At the risk of drifting off topic, which is probably fine at this point-we've covered it-, how's Tunisia?? And more importantly (for us with our absurdly deep draft), how deep is it there?

TJ
__________________
TJ D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 08:29   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Underway in the Med -
Boat: Jeanneau 40 DS SoulMates
Posts: 1,904
Images: 1
Re: USCG licence equivalent to ICC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ D View Post
Hi Chuck,

Mechanic and dish washer is my official title. Deck ape when underway.

At the risk of drifting off topic, which is probably fine at this point-we've covered it-, how's Tunisia?? And more importantly (for us with our absurdly deep draft), how deep is it there?

TJ
We love Tunisia. This is our 2nd winter here and we came back on purpose. We are staying in Port Yasmine with a very modern marina, floating docks, elect, water, lots of dock hands to make sure all boats are ok and they walk the docks to make sure all is safe and even come help at no cost, good security with locked gates to docks, the cleanest water we have ever been in in a marina and 12'+ deep at the dock. They big boat guys bring their megayachts down here to fuel and stay for a day or two so deep draft is no issue. And it is not that expensive over all.

The weather last year was great but this year like everywhere else is terrible with cool - mid 40s at night mid 50s day and winds from 20-40k. And the winter just does not want to quit this year. We got three 70s days now but in 2 days we get 35-45k winds and temps back to 40s to 50s for the next week or more.

But as for Tunisia - WOW we just love it.
__________________
just our thoughts and opinions
chuck and svsoulmates
In Marmaris Turkey for the winter
chuckr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 09:07   #25
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Penobscot Bay, Maine
Boat: Tayana 47
Posts: 990
Re: USCG licence equivalent to ICC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Yeah it's kind of funny. I recently browsed into the morass that is USCG certification of seaman and all I can say is that it is a mess. My son is 17 and looking for a career but that is a different story. He's is inches away from joining the US Navy then I am FREE!!! I didn't tell him I am taking his college fund and buying a boat (shhhh!)

What strikes me is "getting sea time" - It appears all you have to be doing is sitting on a boat picking your nose and it counts. You can also end up driving a 400 meter ship and never piloted a 20-40 footer.

At least with commercial aviation you know that everyone started in a light plane at some point. They all spent the minimum 40 hours demonstrating the same maneuvers and competencies. Then they got instrument rated, commercial rated and multi-engine rated. Each with hours and a list of competencies to demonstrate.

Commercial shipping seems more about gaining useless time on a boat and passing written tests.

Sorry about all this aviation comparison stuff tonight - I need to go to bed - LOL...
You're right, you probably should have left the aviation comparisons out entirely, especially since you seem to be making sweeping judgments about others based on minimal information. Finding fault with someones flying ability who's accustomed to flaring 30' higher because they are taking awhile to adjust to flaring a much, much lighter plane with an entirely different feel is sort of like judging that an unlimited ton any ocean master is obviously incompetent because he just managed to capsize a Sunfish a couple of times on his first attempts to sail one and you happen to be a Sunfish owner and expert Sunfish sailor. Probably best to reserve judgment until you see him handle something a little bigger than a Sunfish or a Piper/Cessna or he's got a couple of dozen hours of hands on experience in them. If they have legit experience and a successful track record on larger planes/boats, they will probably adapt the knowledge they have gained there, make the necessary adjustments to apply their knowledge to the smaller craft, and be fine. It's not that they can't fly or drive a boat for crap, it's just that they are not yet adapted to the peculiarities that you happen to take for granted that EVERYONE should be familiar with because that's what YOU happen to be most familiar with.

I do agree that boating certifications seem to rely much more on paper qualifications than on actual demonstrated ability as is required in flying so it's much more difficult to make any judgments about someones ability based on what their license says on it. In flying, beyond the basic licenses, all of which require a written and practical test in a plane or full motion simulator, airmen are required to be "type rated" on any jet or largish (12,500# I believe) prop which means they have to demonstrate a minimum level of proficiency in that particular plane to a FAA examiner or designee, no matter what other aircraft in which they might be proficient . In boating, you're right that it's a "mess" in the US because I can jump onto anything that floats up to the limitations of my license and be legal to operate it commercially, even if I've never even seen that type rig or means of propulsion before. That seems pretty crazy to me and I personally wish the USCG would adopt something like the RYA has for standards, where there is a practical portion of the test conducted in an actual boat, much like a checkride in an aircraft. It seems to me that it would eliminate a lot of the confusion and justifiable skepticism that goes on concerning what the actual ability of that boats "captain" might be.

Good luck to your kid joining the Navy, great experience for him and even greater for your boat fund! I have a very bright but previously easily distracted and very naive nephew who was badly in need of having some areas of his life "turned around," and joining the Navy was just the thing he needed to put him back on track. My sister was justifiably scared to death he might not make it through his early twenties and now he's married and just had their first child, is very successful at his job (despite his slender build and mild mannered Clark Kent demeanor, his nickname among his admiring co-workers in a highly technical field is "superman," and he's planning to switch into the field of nursing, education all paid for by the US Navy!
__________________
jtsailjt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 09:23   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,871
Re: USCG licence equivalent to ICC?

One catch if you go into the river/canal systems, you may be asked for a CEVNI endorsement.
__________________

__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
enc, icc

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is an ICC Necessary for UK - Canaries - Jamaica? gusblake Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 68 14-09-2012 14:34
ICC in Greece - Laws vs Reality hoppy Europe & Mediterranean 58 25-03-2011 15:57
ICC Now Available to More Nationalities Adax Training, Licensing & Certification 0 03-03-2011 14:54
Upgraded my ICC to Sail . . . Wahoo ! simonmd General Sailing Forum 2 03-12-2010 14:53



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:18.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.