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Old 10-06-2014, 15:49   #91
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Re: USCG Legal Search Question?

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The Royal Cork Yacht Club was founded in Great Britain in 1720.
hmmm, a lot of Cork men just got seriously pi$$ed off

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Old 10-06-2014, 16:02   #92
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Re: USCG Legal Search Question?

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Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post
I think his argument is that he doesn't know why warrantless searches are still permitted, and it all seems wrong to him.
And it doesn't seem wrong to you Jammer? Thats the disconnect between us. you seem to think its ok for USCG or LE out on patrol see a boat sailing by and say to themselves lets go inspect him. Then rummage through his or her vessel looking for infractions while not having witnessed anything that would be considered suspect that the boater is doing or was doing something wrong. Then 1/2 hour later after they finish with boater #1 they see another boat and say to themselves lets see what he's got on board. its borderline harassment.. No it is harassment even if it is legal for them to do so at this point in time. Please don't misconstrue what I'm saying to mean I don't appreciate that they are their for our safety and perform a needed function Im simply saying random boardings are in invasion of my private life that is not legal without a warrant on land. Why do we lose the expectation of privacy because we board our private vessel and more to the point why is that ok with you?
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Old 10-06-2014, 16:47   #93
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Re: USCG Legal Search Question?

That's not the disconnect. That's not even close.

The disconnect is what you're doing about it.
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Old 10-06-2014, 16:56   #94
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Re: USCG Legal Search Question?

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That's not the disconnect. That's not even close.

The disconnect is what you're doing about it.

Posting on a public forum to sway public opinion? What can 1 guy do but start talking to others? Get the issue in front of the public at large. Thats what Im doing. You seem to be cheerleading for the other side with the statements you made earlier, like I wish they could get more people off the water, off the road, etc. You come across as intolerant towards others. Maybe its just your online persona. Im sure your a great guy in person.
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Old 10-06-2014, 17:06   #95
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Re: USCG Legal Search Question?

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I would be interested in seeing the absolute number of rescues at sea compared to the absolute number of other USCG actions. As a rule I monitor CH16 not only when moving but at anchor as well.

True I am in the Florida Keys, but the most common USCG action I hear is rescuing/interdicting Cubans crossing the Straights of Florida. Even more so than calling TowBoatUS to help out powerboats that have run out of gas or run aground.
USCBP (US Customs & Border Patrol) were at the same dock we were in Florida the other day. There were three huge power boats. The officers were very nice and let me take these photos. The seats looked like what you'd be in on an amusement park ride...very handy for when with those big engines are at full throttle.
I asked them what they were looking for and they said "aliens and drugs."
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Old 10-06-2014, 17:30   #96
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Re: USCG Legal Search Question?

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What can 1 guy do but start talking to others?
That was pretty funny. In a sad sort of way.

It reminded me of my son, thirty years ago, complaining about dinner.

He had no hand in getting the dinner to the table, no responsibility, no fiscal participation or, in fact, any participation in the dinner's preparation, and no responsibility for the results-- whether it was going to make him sick, get vitamins into him, or have a small enough impact on our budget that we would have food left in the morning.

But he didn't like it.

What can you do?

This is a meaningless internet board. A post here has the same significance as my son's complaints-- both will vanish down the vortex of the drain, and be lost in the debris of meaningless complaints, whining and churlish protests.

What can you do? You can start by finding out what you can do.

Then you can either have a seat, along with the rest of the folks whose complaints aren't significant enough, even to them, to actually merit action, or you can get off your dead ass and do something beyond complaining. You can form a PAC. You can donate one dollar, one latte, or one hour to an organization that supports the particular cause you claim is so important-- in this case, the Fourth Amendment. (If I were to choose that particular battle, I'd look at the ACLU. But that's me. And any organization is subject to homogenization. You'll find out what that is in step one. An organization isn't always the best answer, particularly for extremely focused causes, or limited, finite goals.)

Or you can have that seat.

Remaining silent implies acceptance. It means that while you don't like spinach, there's nothing you're capable or willing to do about it. Since you're capable, it's the willing clause that applies here.

Posting on the internet is remaining silent, because it has no effect. It's the same as my son's complaints. The people putting dinner on the table will blow you off, and if they remember you, it will be to use as a bad example. What you say won't change dinner, not that night, not ever.

Posting doesn't change anything, it doesn't do anything. It doesn't "get people talking", it sure as hell doesn't change opinions. Even if the internet changed overnight, and suddenly you could change an opinion with it, that wouldn't matter. Because it doesn't change the opinions that matter. That, too, can be an exercise in research. Why wouldn't changing an opinion with a post on this board matter? How can that be? The answer(s) will go a long ways towards explaining to you why the U.S. Coast Guard has carte blanc in the year 2014 to stop vessels and search them.

So if you were a True Believer in what you're saying, you'd be on it. You'd be changing it. (Both those statements assume that you are an adult, and that you have a reasonably sound, moral character. Let me know if either of those assumptions are incorrect.) And if a) you understood how to change it, and b) you were involved in changing it, you wouldn't be here complaining about it, because you would know how useless that is, and you wouldn't bother. Not to mention that you wouldn't want to risk saying something that could impede your cause.

Now do you understand the real disconnect between us?
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Old 10-06-2014, 17:32   #97
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Re: USCG Legal Search Question?

Haven't been stopped yet. Not that I haven't been frequently observed by the USCG. They have a station within a quarter mile of my boat's berth.



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Old 10-06-2014, 17:52   #98
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Re: USCG Legal Search Question?

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Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post

Remaining silent implies acceptance. It means that while you don't like spinach, there's nothing you're capable or willing to do about it. Since you're capable, it's the willing clause that applies here.

not sure if it is Ok to eat spinach or not now, but figure it wouldn't make any difference if I'm stopped on the water. I don't really have an issue with spinach and don't really care to argue about whether it is evil.
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Old 10-06-2014, 18:15   #99
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Re: USCG Legal Search Question?

Some people are observers and some people are actors. They can work together.
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Old 10-06-2014, 18:28   #100
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Re: USCG Legal Search Question?

Some posts have been deleted. Disagree with each other all you like but keep it civil. Name calling and personal attacks are not allowed.

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Old 10-06-2014, 19:56   #101
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Re: USCG Legal Search Question?

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No rights? ..... of course you have rights. 'right to legal representation. "right not to volunteer information. 'right to due process. 'right to free speech. 'right to petition the govenment for a redress of grievences. ...the list goes on!

I am curious why people have reported these events of being stopped and searched by the USCG for as many as 20 or 30 times! We anchored behind the right shoulder of the Statue of Liberty after 9-11 and were never questioned. We've been actively cruising in US waters since 1971 with no other residence than our boat and we have never once been stopped or questioned in any manner by the USCG. We have made 23 transits of the US East Coast all without more than a casual wave at a passing Coast Guard vessel.

So my question. If some people are stopped many times and many say to expect a stop and search once every year or two, why have we spent 43 years cruising without an event?
My understanding in reading many of these same kind of posts on this and many other boating forums is that the CG is usually not the perpetrator, but rather LEOs with altogether too many cases of repeated and unnecessary boardings and searches. Those LEOs use it to justify their existence, ever since they got their boats from the (damned) Patriot (gag!) Act. As mentioned, some States have even passed legislation to reduce or eliminate this travesty. Good for them.

Here in Northern California, the CG is exhibits very fine behavior. I only once got boarded by them, back in the late 80s, when they were training two very young and green recruits on a Monday morning. They asked the usual questions, turned out I knew more than they did (I had a 25 foot boat and they were asking about placards related to inboard engine vessels).

Years later, after 911, we were asked if the local Alameda police could board, we said "Sure" and all they asked for was our drivers licenses. Done.

Any motorized LE vessel that asks a recreational boat under sail in local waters is plain crazy and doesn't understand dynamics.

Other than that, however, I went to get fuel recently and the same local Alameda LEO boat was there, so I went over for a chat. Nice guy, bemoaned the fact that they could only "afford" to go out on Mondays, because the City bought the boat with Patriot Act funds, but these days there's not enough $$ for fuel (!!!) and they have to go out once a week simply to keep their active status and drivers licenses current!!! Talk about a waste of money. They have an even bigger boat that no longer ever leaves the dock! And this was a day after opening day when they could have been useful for patrols for safety.

Dumbass politicians.
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Old 10-06-2014, 20:09   #102
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Re: USCG Legal Search Question?

I'd like to hear more about how a state law stops the Coast Guard from boarding.
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Old 10-06-2014, 20:15   #103
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Re: USCG Legal Search Question?

We are all probably most affected by our interactions with law enforcement. Once in 1985 I received a citation for an expired registration which I had not renewed while off in the Bahamas. Once in about 2001 I was questioned by the DNR in coastal Georgia about my home port and destination. Once in 2010 a Florida Marine Patrol Officer requested that I slow my dinghy down within the Saint Augustine Marina basin. Everyone was pleasant and these are my only encounters with authority in the US over fifty years of boating. Some of us would just not be able to see the concern.
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Old 10-06-2014, 20:49   #104
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Re: USCG Legal Search Question?

I had the "pleasure" of my first USCG visit last week 25 miles east of Miami. The interaction was pleasant and professional. It went somewhat like this:

USCG- sailboat off my bow please acknowledge and switch to Ch 12.

Me- going to 12

USCG-Please state your last port of call and next port of call

Me- I left Miami at 02:00, came about 3 miles west of Bimini at 13:00 and am headed back to Miami.

USCG- how many people are on board
ME-One

Looong pause-

USCG- Please spell the name of your vessel for us
ME- complied

USCG- Please spell your name and date of birth
ME- complied - figured they were running my id to see if I had record

USCG- Please prepare for a "courtesy" boarding
ME- 10-4.... released mike.... WTF! Looking at the deck gun- like I got a choice....

The "visit" was very cordial, professional and up close- 4 Coasties with vests and side arms on a 33 foot boat and me did not leave too much free room on the dance floor!

After a brief conversation, they realized I was not running drugs, or aliens and was not a lunatic. They saw a sound, well founded vessel and attitudes changed from hard core business to discussions of the electronics including the iPad below decks with chart plotting software and AIS over WiFi.

In hindsight, if I was the master of the cutter I too would have ordered a boarding.

Why are some not stopped? Perhaps they don't hit the profile.

In general the world has changed, good guys don't wear white hats and bad guys black hats. I tolerate these "visits" as I am confident that they reduce the odds of my grandchildren living through another large scale terrorist attack. Additionally, these "visits" help stem the tide of illegal aliens.

My compliments to the cutter and team who boarded me!
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Old 11-06-2014, 04:48   #105
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Re: USCG Legal Search Question?

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USCG- Please prepare for a "courtesy" boarding
did they really say that?
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