USCG Documentation Gone Awry

[Captain Bob]

The various problems with the Coast Guard and, for that matter, any Federal regulatory agency are numerous and legendary. I have had many problems renewing my captain's license because the CG was using someone else's medical data. I finally referred the matter to my congresswoman, Barbara Mikulski, D - Maryland and the matter was cleared up in a week.

We pay taxes for representation so use the state representatives to Congress. It works!

[Jetx]

Originally Posted by rb1685

I've heard of firms that can act as an agent handling USCG documentation matters. Does anyone have experience doing this?

When we purchased our current boat, we used a documentation specialist recommended by our broker... Greg Allison at Carol Matthews' vessel registration USCG vessel title registration USCG registrations Coast Guard vessel titles Coast Guard registration vessels documentations USCG titles Coast Guard vessels registrations USCG documentations vessels registrations Co. This was a little pricey, but we didn't have the time to fool with it, and it was worth it to be sure everything got done correctly.

They're in your neck of the woods, so could be worth a call to Greg to see if he has any suggestions. Decent chance they've run into something like this before.

[Comogene]

The acquiring banks have a form letter indicating that the identified loan was NOT in the portfolio at the time that the assets were acquired. They issue them constantly on old loans.

That should meet the USCG requirements.

[Lepke]

I bought my current boat in Canada although it was originally built in the US. I used an agent because somewhere on the Canadian side the building facts were all screwed up. It took 9 months to get everything right and an admeasure. The agent was about $500. You don't need an agent, but they know the short cuts.
I would document your boat. Depending on where you use it and where you call homeport, most if not all the state taxes can be avoided. Years ago documented vessels were not taxed by states. But since most of the states, for years, have been spending money like a sailor on payday they need the money.

[MYTraveler]

Security Pacific was acquired by Bank of America. They should be able to help.

[TeddyDiver]

A stupid question.. suppose the boat was originally bought with cash, no banks involved, would the CG still need some stupid paper from a bank? And how they (USCG) could ever know how it was financed..

[Cottontop]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

A stupid question.. suppose the boat was originally bought with cash, no banks involved, would the CG still need some stupid paper from a bank? And how they (USCG) could ever know how it was financed..

In a cash sale, there would be no mortgage filed with the USCG, and the USCG wouldn't be looking for a release. In this case, the boat was financed, and the mortgage was registered with the USCG (it's called a First Preferred Ship Mortgage). It's not the USCG's fault that the proper paperwork showing the lien has been released has not been filed.

I might get an agent involved. Won't be the first time they've dealt with this.

[TeddyDiver]

Just a bit strange. If the bank didn't collect their assets during 40 years so why CG bothers..

[seaman-lew]

I don't know. the coast guard has been very helpful to us. did you contact them.

[Cadence]

I might inquire about what a service would charge if you can get a flat rate for satisfaction. It might save you from getting ulcers. Those people do it every day and know the ins and outs of who to contact. It's the old story of who you know etc..

[rossny]

Call the service in ft lauderdale and ask them if they can help, they will tell you if they can or not and will not charge you if they can't. I used them to us doc our formally british flagged boat when we purchased it and they were very professional and helpful. The bureaucracy can be daunting if you don't deal with it everyday... good luck!

[TacomaSailor]

If you have not done so - call the USCG Vessel Documentation Center (VDC). I have talked to them several times this year and they are extraordinarily helpful, and even eager to help. I've never spent more than 3-minutes on hold before I talked to a live person that knew all the details.

We paid off our boat mortgage but received no documents from the Bank or USCG or Vessel Documentation Center. The Bank said they sent them to us but we never received them. I got a Renewal Form from the USCG that did not indicate clearance of the mortgage.

VDC told me they had received the notice of mortgage satisfaction from the bank but it might take up to another 6-months (it has already been 75 days) to receive a notice of satisfaction from them.

What I found surprising was that no paper "TITLE" or document of ownership exists as they do for homes and cars. VDC said the annual Renewal document should satisfy any legal or law enforcement authorities who inquire of us about the boat ownership.

Additional Proof of ownership can be requested by asking for an Abstract but it costs money. A little confusing to me.

[Cottontop]

Originally Posted by rb1685

I need some advice here.

I bought my boat back in January from someone in California. Her father finished out the boat back in the late 70's, and apparently took out a loan to do so. The loan has long since been satisfied.

Well, when I went to file for documentation exchange, my application was rejected on the grounds that there was no "satisfaction of mortgage" from the lender. After two failed attempts to file the documentation - including a notarized and signed statement of satisfaction by the previous owner - the USCG has once again rejected my documentation.

So far, you only have the seller's word for it that the loan was fully paid. For your sake, I hope that turns out to be true. But you shouldn't expect the USCG to take the borrower's word for it.

Could you call your county office and tell them you had paid off your home mortgage, and expect them to act on that? Even if you sent them a notarized letter? Of course not. They will have to hear from the bank.

There are two possibilities as to why the USCG still shows a lien:

1. The seller of the boat was careless in not being sure the bank sent the proper paperwork to the USCG at the time. Seems strange to me. When I pay off my home mortgage, you can be darn sure I’ll get a release from the bank, and make sure the proper paperwork is filed at the county. Now seller's bank is gone and it will be a pain to get this corrected, but possible.
2. The loan has not been paid. Worst case for the buyer. It would have been a simple matter at the time of purchase to check the USCG records. Buyer didn't need any help. Might be an expensive mistake. Hope not.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by rb1685

I need some advice here.

I bought my boat back in January from someone in California. Her father finished out the boat back in the late 70's, and apparently took out a loan to do so. The loan has long since been satisfied.

Well, when I went to file for documentation exchange, my application was rejected on the grounds that there was no "satisfaction of mortgage" from the lender. After two failed attempts to file the documentation - including a notarized and signed statement of satisfaction by the previous owner - the USCG has once again rejected my documentation.

So apparently, the [I]Lender[I] has to fill out the satisfaction form, and it turns out that bank was closed in 2008...

A couple of questions:

- What the hell do I do now?

- What are the implications of registering the boat with the state of Texas? I intend to go cruising in two or three years, and I'm uncertain if a state-registered boat will be acceptable in foreign waters.

- I've heard of firms that can act as an agent handling USCG documentation matters. Does anyone have experience doing this?

Just out of curiosity, what type of documentation did you get upon purchase?

[Sailor647]

Originally Posted by sandy stone

Careful with the wording here. You can't have a boat *titled* by a state and also documented, but most states (including mine) require you to *register* your boat, documented or not. It is true you don't have to display numbers, but at least in my state you do have to display the decal showing proof of registration.

That statement is bold is not true. This is from the USCG National Vessel Doccumentation page: USCG National Vessel Documentation Center, Fee Page

"HOW IS VESSEL OWNERSHIP ESTABLISHED?
If the vessel is new and has never been documented, ownership may be established by submission of a Builder's Certification (Form CG-1261), naming the applicant for documentation as the person for whom the vessel was built or to whom the vessel was first transferred. Also acceptable are a transfer on a Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin, a copy of the State Registration or Title, or foreign registration showing that the applicant owns the vessel.

Boats in Oregon are registered, titled, and documented.

State of Oregon: Title & Registration

"Documented recreational vessels primarily used in Oregon waters must be registered.
Oregon boat titles must be submitted by mail or through a local agent within 30 days from the date of purchase to avoid a $25.00 late transfer penalty.
Submit other boat title requests by mail or through a local agent."