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Old 11-08-2015, 17:17   #31
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Re: USCG Documentation Gone Awry

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Originally Posted by rb1685 View Post
Security Pacific National Bank. The FDIC has a number I can call, and I think the inheriting bank was Pacific Western Bank. However, some other sources on the web say that Bank of America inherited the assets. I'll probably try both.
There were two banks with similar names.

Security Pacific National Bank had that name for a few decades until it merged in to Bank of America in 1992. If this is the bank that lent the money and you have proof that the loan was paid then (assuming same as in most reasonable legal systems) you should have the right to demand that the provide documentation to clear the mortgage from title record. Do you have such proof? If you do then you should be fine but it may take a while.

There was also a Security Pacific Bank that came up after 9/11 and later failed. If this is the lender then it may get messier because it may not be clear if the loan asset passed on to the buyer (pacific Western Bank) or the Feds.
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Old 11-08-2015, 17:23   #32
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Re: USCG Documentation Gone Awry

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Originally Posted by TeddyDiver View Post
Just a bit strange. If the bank didn't collect their assets during 40 years so why CG bothers..
In many Latin countries the creditor needs to "renew" the lien every decade or so to keep it "alive". This deals with exactly this situation. Unfortunately in the US liens seem to run forever ..
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Old 11-08-2015, 17:37   #33
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Re: USCG Documentation Gone Awry

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Originally Posted by rb1685 View Post

- What are the implications of registering the boat with the state of Texas?
I doubt Texas will issue a title on a boat that has a USCG registration.

I am sure that USCG will not let you "delete" the USCG registration ("documentation" in US dialect) unless you provide a release instrument signed by the mortgage holder.

I am sure someone will suggest that you get some sort of US state registration that does NOT include a proper title. There are about a dozen US states that will register boats but not issue titles and they do not ask many questions; Delaware and Colorado come to mind. I have seen such boats in places as remote as the Mediterranean and Uruguay, where the authorities cannot distinguish a proper boat registration document and Delaware´s "proof that you paid a fee". I have also seen those boats get in trouble in Brazil because the authorities there know that those boats or their owners have "something to hide".
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Old 11-08-2015, 18:51   #34
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Re: USCG Documentation Gone Awry

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Originally Posted by Dougtiff View Post
I had a similar situation, purchased a boat without the paper work that would satisfy the man [had been documented before] and upon their suggestion registered with the DMV, obtained the Pinkslip [legal ownership], sent this in and obtained my Documentation, problem is you have to keep it up on a Yearly basis, pain in the ass, there is no international law that states the vessel has to be registered, one just needs to show ownership, i went to the US embassy and obtained a "certificate of american ownership" a quite impressive document with a seal and Red ribbon attached, lastly you can not have the vessel registered with the state AND have her documented. United States code annotated 1999 title 46 shipping # 12124 " a documented vessel shall not be titled by a state or required to display numbers under chapter 123 [46USCA& 12301 et seq:] and any certificate of tittle issued by a state for a documented vessel shall be surrendered in accordance with regulations prescribed by the secretary of transportation." I know about this because a friend of mine moved his boat to Alaska and they tried to force them to register, he took the State to court, the Judge thru it out quoting the above Federal regulation, in fact the Fed could take your vessel if they wished [probably would never happen]
There is incorrect info here. As Noted, you may not display any State issued numbers if you are documented. The FED/CG recognizes the right of states to require all kinds of BS such as Title, Registration, water use fees & transfer taxes. They even recognize the annual sticker I must have in Michigan waters, not unlike the DNR water use sticker required in many states. My Michigan registration paper comes with the assigned Michigan MC number but it exists only in their data base & on my Registration. I keep this with the boat documents along with a printing of the FED law prohibiting me from affixing them to the hull. This is to protect us from the pinhead local deputy or city water cops who have never heard of documentation.

As noted by several other posts, many local off-shore nationalities will (grudgingly) accept your state registration. This is because they have run into enough unprepared cruisers near the US to understand the meaning. Get far enough away or deal with the wrong official and you will have problems. They know what the US is but have no idea what a Texas is.
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Old 11-08-2015, 19:35   #35
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Re: USCG Documentation Gone Awry

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I would document your boat. Depending on where you use it and where you call homeport, most if not all the state taxes can be avoided.
That is not accurate. USCG documentation does not affect a state's ability to collect sales or use tax.

State sales tax is due when you buy the boat if the state taxes boats.

If you move it somewhere else the new state wants their share. if their sales tax rate is higher than what you paid then you usually get a credit. If you didn't pay anywhere then they want the full tax.

It's a whole new world today.
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Old 11-08-2015, 21:27   #36
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Re: USCG Documentation Gone Awry

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Originally Posted by Sailor647 View Post
That statement is bold is not true.

Boats in Oregon are registered, titled, and documented.
Are you sure? According to everything I've read, when you document a boat you must surrender the state title back to the issuing state.

Apologies to the OP for thread drift.
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Old 13-08-2015, 07:03   #37
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Re: USCG Documentation Gone Awry

I had the same problem with a 25 year old boat I couldn't find the original boat owner or the bank after a lot of frustration and no help from the cg I state registered the boat.
Good luck
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Old 13-08-2015, 16:33   #38
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Re: USCG Documentation Gone Awry

I might start by getting the abstract of title from the USCG. I don't think it costs much, and might have some useful info in it such as the real name of the lender, maybe a loan or account number, perhaps some names or phone numbers that might be useful.
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Old 14-08-2015, 09:50   #39
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Re: USCG Documentation Gone Awry

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I would look at the state registration option. I could not document my boat, as the boat was owned by an LLC and the sole owner of the LLC passed away. I purchased the boat from the estate.

I used a documentation agent to process my paperwork for the state registration and it went very smoothly. I am not worried about not being documented. I know several people who have cruised nearly everywhere with a state registered boat.
Did the same thing. None of the three previous owners of my boat bothered to register or title the boat. I had a copy of the original bill of sale from the company and the buyer (ancient address). I called the State person for boat registrations and she told me to send a registered letter to the old address requesting a bill of sale, which I did. When it came back as undeliverable (which we knew it would), I sent it to her along with the copy of the bill of sale from the third owner (we ignored the fact there was an owner #2). A few weeks later I got a title, which I then sent to USCG for documentation. I realize I lucked out, but my point is it can be done if you work the system until you wear them down. Good luck!
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Old 14-08-2015, 10:04   #40
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Re: USCG Documentation Gone Awry

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Did the same thing. None of the three previous owners of my boat bothered to register or title the boat. I had a copy of the original bill of sale from the company and the buyer (ancient address). I called the State person for boat registrations and she told me to send a registered letter to the old address requesting a bill of sale, which I did. When it came back as undeliverable (which we knew it would), I sent it to her along with the copy of the bill of sale from the third owner (we ignored the fact there was an owner #2). A few weeks later I got a title, which I then sent to USCG for documentation. I realize I lucked out, but my point is it can be done if you work the system until you wear them down. Good luck!
The lien will stay on the USCG records forever, I suppose, and might cause a problem when selling the boat. I would try to get it removed. Failing that, state registration might be the only answer.

If the OP registers the boat in Texas, texas will want use tax, no? Unless the OP can show sales tax was paid in CA.
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Old 14-08-2015, 10:47   #41
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Re: USCG Documentation Gone Awry

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Originally Posted by sandy stone View Post
states (including mine) require you to *register* your boat, documented or not. It is true you don't have to display numbers, but at least in my state you do have to display the decal showing proof of registration.
correct. also this requires paying state sales tax when you buy the boat and a yearly registration fee. florida requires the decal too. but if documented the coast guard holds the title.
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Old 14-08-2015, 12:49   #42
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Re: USCG Documentation Gone Awry

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Just a bit strange. If the bank didn't collect their assets during 40 years so why CG bothers..
One of the primary purposes of CG Documentation is to establish ownership.

Obviously, they can't take the owners word for it, unless he has paperwork to support it. Otherwise unscrupolous people would buy boats with huge loans, sell them to thier buddy and the bank would lose it's collateral.

It's not the CG's problem if the owner is a deadbeat who didn't pay his loan.

Back to the point: Most likely the owner will have to request the loan satisfaction paperwork. Generally, banks won't hand out other peoples information.

If he's not of sound mind, there should be someone with a power of attorney. If he dies, the executor of the estate can follow up on these items.
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Old 14-08-2015, 14:16   #43
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Re: USCG Documentation Gone Awry

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
One of the primary purposes of CG Documentation is to establish ownership.

Obviously, they can't take the owners word for it, unless he has paperwork to support it. Otherwise unscrupolous people would buy boats with huge loans, sell them to thier buddy and the bank would lose it's collateral.

It's not the CG's problem if the owner is a deadbeat who didn't pay his loan.

Back to the point: Most likely the owner will have to request the loan satisfaction paperwork. Generally, banks won't hand out other peoples information.

If he's not of sound mind, there should be someone with a power of attorney. If he dies, the executor of the estate can follow up on these items.
You probably nailed it on the head. Someone, executor, probably didn't do the job upon someone passing. Sad but not uncommon since generally left to an heir not an attorney. Not that I particularly like lawyers. If it wasn't probated correctly it could be heir's property which means any relative could have a claim. Great uncle so and so had it so I deserve a piece. Can't blame the CG.
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Old 14-08-2015, 14:40   #44
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Re: USCG Documentation Gone Awry

Way OT, but...
My boat has a registration (pink slip) , but I can't find the HIN on the starboard transom . The number seems correct as to the builder (Formosa Boat Builders), length, year, (1980) and hull # (#7, not too popular ) but if push came to shove, how would I prove it?
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Old 14-08-2015, 14:42   #45
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Re: USCG Documentation Gone Awry

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I might start by getting the abstract of title from the USCG. I don't think it costs much, and might have some useful info in it such as the real name of the lender, maybe a loan or account number, perhaps some names or phone numbers that might be useful.
It costs $25. You can do it online and they will email or fax you the abstract.

https://www.pay.gov/public/form/start/1175233
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