US Documentation of a Foreign Built Vessel?

[zeehag]

if you are having issues documenting your boat see a documentation service such as dona jenkins. they are in san diego but do online work as well.
my taiwanese build is documented. many boats in usa are foreign builds and many usa documented craft are foreign builds.
asking a documentation service or uscg is the best path. best of luck

[Sand crab]

So, is the boat registered and titled in Washington State? It's not under Canadian title is it?

Did it ever have Canadian registration because I assume that Canada would have established that your boat was built in Canada? That should be good enough for the US and and you can bypass the importation fee which is about 1.5%.
Are you a US citizen?

[billknny]

Originally Posted by redhead

Our boat was built in Canada. We brought it to the US five years ago and have been registered in Washington state ever since. We've learned that the Jones Act of 1920 prohibits foreign built vessels from being US Documented.

You learned wrong. Vessels built overseas CAN be USA documented, easily and simply, however there are some limitations...[read on]. There is nothing special about the process, just follow the instructions on the USCG web site, or spend $300 and have a documentation service do it for you.

Originally Posted by redhead

We were told recently (by someone we don't know well, but seems to be knowledgeable) that getting a waiver for the prohibition shouldn't be a big deal and they were granted fairly often.

Your source is either only slightly knowledgable, or he misunderstood your question. Any foreign built vessel can be USA documented. All of my boats have been foreign built (Canada and France), and all were USA documented. HOWEVER... without an exemption they can NOT be used for any kind of commercial service. This will be reflected on the document with language like this:

Under "Operational Endorsements" it will say, "Recreational"

Under "Restrictions" it will say, "No Coastwise--Foreign Built, No Fisheries--Foreign built."

If you want to use your foreign built vessel as a charter boat in the USA, you CAN get an exemption. The process involves writing to your congressmen, and having them add a sentence to pretty much any bill the leadership allows that specifically grants you the exemption. It is easy if your congressmen's staff has handled one of these before, and it is totally routine.

My former boat had such an exception, because she had been used as a crewed charter boat for many years, and every year the document arrived with the following text included under Endorsements: "Coastwise and Fisheries allowed. Special legislation."

And despite what other people have said, this issue involves commercial vessel service in US waters and is EXACTLY what the Jones Act covers.

[Sand crab]

The OP hasn't said anything about commercial use so perhaps we should just drop that part of the discussion.

[frozenhawaiian]

USCG documentation for non US built boats is a non issue so long as you're documentation is only for recreational use. however if you're trying to get documented for commercial use then you either have to prove US build (or at least 51% rebuild in a US shipyard if foreign built) jones act waivers do get granted from time to time for small tonnage and un-inspected vessel but they're pretty rare, the long and short of it is if you're applying for a jones act waiver you have to make a very convincing case to the coast guard that your non jones act compliant vessel won't be hurting the business of any jones act compliant vessels in the area. In practice what this basically means is if there are any jones act boats in your area then you're not getting a waiver.

[Dogscout]

Hey folks I think that I have a unique question but you all may have a good answer or advice.

So I am buying a used sailboat in Malta and I want to change to US documented. Boat is currently Maltese flagged and Malta will not let a foreign citizen have a Maltese Flag. I do not want to set up a Maltese corporation.

US Doc center said they need proof of deregistration from Malta. Malta will not deregister without proof of new registration. This is the problem.

US Doc center guy said that without evidence of deregistration he will write me up with a deficiency failure on the application and send that to the USCG office which will take months to resolve.

What would you do, have you done, will work to make this happen

[sailcrazy]

Dogscout.we had the same issue when we bought our Singapore-registered, British-owned, Taiwan-manufactured Taswell....in Singapore. I did go through the deregistration process in Singapore (talk about red tape!), then applied for USCG Documentation. They did ask for the deregistration proof, but I enclosed it, and it went thru w/o a hitch. That was 19 yrs ago, and she's still USCG-documented (and never seen CONUS waters).

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Dogscout

Hey folks I think that I have a unique question but you all may have a good answer or advice.

So I am buying a used sailboat in Malta and I want to change to US documented. Boat is currently Maltese flagged and Malta will not let a foreign citizen have a Maltese Flag. I do not want to set up a Maltese corporation.

US Doc center said they need proof of deregistration from Malta. Malta will not deregister without proof of new registration. This is the problem.

US Doc center guy said that without evidence of deregistration he will write me up with a deficiency failure on the application and send that to the USCG office which will take months to resolve.

What would you do, have you done, will work to make this happen

So Malta will not deregister without proof that the boat is first registered elsewhere? And yes I understand that USCG requires deregistration before you can apply for documentation so this isn't going to work.

However, you can register the boat in almost any US state where they don't care at all if the boat is currently registered in Malta. You will need to present some documents to them showing ownership like bill of sale and/or title. Then take this to Malta, deregister there, then take all the docs to the USCG et voila.

[Dogscout]

Originally Posted by skipmac

So Malta will not deregister without proof that the boat is first registered elsewhere? And yes I understand that USCG requires deregistration before you can apply for documentation so this isn't going to work.

However, you can register the boat in almost any US state where they don't care at all if the boat is currently registered in Malta. You will need to present some documents to them showing ownership like bill of sale and/or title. Then take this to Malta, deregister there, then take all the docs to the USCG et voila.

Yes that whole US state thing is something I was going to try and avoid. I don't plan on returning to the US for about 5 years. I sold my US residence and although I do plan to return I do not think that I will be returning with the boat. This leaves me to question why I should pay tax to a US state when the property will likely not see the US.

The broker here is looking into scrapping the vessel to remove it from Malta registry, then I will have evidence to show the US.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Dogscout

Yes that whole US state thing is something I was going to try and avoid. I don't plan on returning to the US for about 5 years. I sold my US residence and although I do plan to return I do not think that I will be returning with the boat. This leaves me to question why I should pay tax to a US state when the property will likely not see the US.

The broker here is looking into scrapping the vessel to remove it from Malta registry, then I will have evidence to show the US.

There are a couple of US states that do not charge sales tax on used boat sales. Rhode Island is one and they also don't seem to care about the mailing address. I was living there when I bought my sailboat so registered my sailboat and dinghy in RI. Then moved onto the boat and lived in CT for a while, then moved the boat to FL. Still maintain the RI registration and they mail all to my PO box in FL.

[hellosailor]

Yes, as Skipmac said, there are several US states that will be glad to register the vessel without sales tax. Some may ask for excise tax, others may ask for property tax but only if you or the vessel are in the state at a certain time.

Whatever state you go with, DO make sure to ask "Are there any other taxed that might be applicable? Anything I should be aware of?" because there are so many that most of us never think of.

Be careful of scrapping the vessel. If that somehow flags the title as "scrap" or "salvage" that can encumber the vessel and create an insurance or title problem further down the line.

https://www.thebalance.com/states-wi...es-tax-3193305
Five states without sales tax--but still with other gotchas.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Yes, as Skipmac said, there are several US states that will be glad to register the vessel without sales tax. Some may ask for excise tax, others may ask for property tax but only if you or the vessel are in the state at a certain time.

Whatever state you go with, DO make sure to ask "Are there any other taxed that might be applicable? Anything I should be aware of?" because there are so many that most of us never think of.

Be careful of scrapping the vessel. If that somehow flags the title as "scrap" or "salvage" that can encumber the vessel and create an insurance or title problem further down the line.

https://www.thebalance.com/states-wi...es-tax-3193305
Five states without sales tax--but still with other gotchas.

Quite correct. There are several states that may not have a sales or sales and use tax but then come back and ding you for some other tax or fee. However, I did my registration in Rhode Island and 9 years later haven't gotten any other bills from them except a parking ticket.

[hellosailor]

skip-
I know these things change, but did you have any issues with RI requiring an in-state residency or mailing address? I know they were going a bit mad dog on out of staters a few years ago, because some many people were using bogus residencies to get the in-state tuition rate at some fine colleges. Shouldn't affect boats but, you know, madness is contagious.

[jmschmidt]

Malta documentation is probably like the US so a Malta Corp would not do you any good unless it were over 50% controlled by Maltese citizens.

If you have interpreted the Maltese correctly you are now in a dilemma which has no solution, which I seriously doubt. Best you hire a US documentation service which will handle the deflag/reflag details. Also document the sale on USCG Form 1340 and provide a Builders Certificate.

Malta is a major registry for international shipping, hundreds of vessels change hands in and out of Malta flag there every years. I doubt that there no way to do what you want to do.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

skip-
I know these things change, but did you have any issues with RI requiring an in-state residency or mailing address? I know they were going a bit mad dog on out of staters a few years ago, because some many people were using bogus residencies to get the in-state tuition rate at some fine colleges. Shouldn't affect boats but, you know, madness is contagious.

Well I bought the boat (with dinghy) ten years ago and did the initial registration in RI then. At the time I actually had a RI street address and had the boat moored in Bristol RI so wasn't an issue. However nothing in the process at the time raised any concern about them wanting to verify my full and legal residence status. In fact, I called the state registration office with some questions and their attitude was (like FL and a lot of other states) if you keep your boat in our state more than 90 days we want registration fees and we don't care where you personally keep yourself or where your permanent, legal residence might be AND if you want to register the boat in RI and give us money we will gladly accept it.

I think the fact that boat registration involves giving them money expecting nothing in return (like in-state tuition at Brown or any other residents' benefit) pretty much eliminates any suspicions on their part. Further, I guess they figure if you are ducking sales taxes in another state that's not RI's problem, as long as they collect their registration fees.