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Old 14-08-2013, 13:28   #31
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Re: US Customs Issue

Years ago I returned to the US at Ft Pierce Fl from the Bahamas. The Phone at the marina had a Customs poster saying to call "XXXXX". So I did, they said they would come out. They never did and we dry stored the boat 2 or 3 days later there at Harbortown. I guess I should have followed up , but the boat was stored and I was 3500 miles away. A few years later I got a nastygram letter from them saying I never checked in... For all I know I'm on their red flag now too...
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Old 14-08-2013, 13:39   #32
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Re: US Customs Issue

How many liveaboard are there in your marina? How many of them are inspected like you? If you are the only one then you must have pass issues with the criminal system. Its like when you get stopped once for DUI every time you are out on a Saturday night you get stopped.

I think this goes way past just a boat name. There is more to the story than you are tell and that is your business.
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Old 14-08-2013, 13:57   #33
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Re: US Customs Issue

Everything you need to know about your boat and your 4th Amendment rights and you ain't got non brother.
http://www.sailfeed.com/bob-perry
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Old 14-08-2013, 14:41   #34
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Re: US Customs Issue

i am one of those guys who figures 'they' are gonna do whatever they want anyway...

that said. i was recently speak with a pretty senior person in the CG whom i have been friends with for a very long time.

the actual topic was of guns on board which, for obvious reasons, i wont get into here but what sticks out in my memory was this:

without a search warrant, they they can not open or left anything. Even with reasonable suspicion they can only inspect what is in plain sight.

they can, impound / seize your vessel and then tear it apart but on a general 'stop and inspect' eyes only.

if you are not hiding anything...

if it is the same guys each time, make friends with them.

if it is different guys, when the 2nd group show up, ask about the 1st group ('hey, how is bill smith doing... he was here last month?")

it is your tolerance for the situation, but changing the name and whatnot seems a lot of effort.

what about just moving to a new slip in the marina?

gl
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Old 14-08-2013, 17:48   #35
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Re: US Customs Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostmt View Post
How many liveaboard are there in your marina? How many of them are inspected like you? If you are the only one then you must have pass issues with the criminal system. Its like when you get stopped once for DUI every time you are out on a Saturday night you get stopped.

I think this goes way past just a boat name. There is more to the story than you are tell and that is your business.
Well, you know what they say when you assume, right? I'm actually a member of the USCGAUX. So no, no prior law enforcement problems. There are about 70 live about ads at my marina, and yes, we all get pretty much the same treatment. It's just ROM Customs though. USCG doesn't bother us, not do any other law enforcement arms. I'll try some of these suggestions. Thanks.
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Old 14-08-2013, 18:10   #36
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Re: US Customs Issue

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Originally Posted by Kevin84 View Post
... If we're not home, they don't board as we have 3 cats on board and they prefer not to deal with animals without the owners present....
There is a simple solution to your problem. When they show up and ask to come aboard just say "Feel free to look around. We were just leaving. Keep an eye on the cats for us before you lock up".
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Old 14-08-2013, 19:46   #37
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Re: US Customs Issue

" Unless of course they are upstanding citizens with their boats in marinas,"
Ah.no no no. Simply not possible. Marinas are used by the hoipoloi who are too poor or cras to have proper docks on their own property. Definitely not Republican material. Now, Republicans who are in, ah, limited circumstances waiting for their oceanfront property to be acquired, might keep their boats at a Yacht Club. But marinas? Oh, please, that's for Democrats and Communists, no doubt. Good lord, they don't even require proper tennis whites in marinas, now do they? And they'll let people just walk right in and pay for a slip, without proper introductions and recommendations, too. Ugh.
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Old 15-08-2013, 12:00   #38
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Re: US Customs Issue

Now that we know more of the story I thought you had been singled out by customs because of a red flag. Your just lucky because they must like you.

Sand crab: That was a good read and need to know information. Thanks but does customs have the same right to search as the CG. I know that the game wardens do not have to abide by the 4th Amendment here in Texas. They can board and search you at any time. We now have the Texas Highway Patrol using large gun boats.

Have we lost our 4th Amendment rights with out knowing it. They are working at getting the 2nd gone.
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Old 15-08-2013, 12:59   #39
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Re: US Customs Issue

Customs used to have auhtority to conduct seaches AT the border only. Their rationale was that you were not in the US yet, until and unless they cleared you in, and therefore you had no rights.

They've extended their logic [sic] by saying now that if you are within so many miles of the border, well, you might have just snuck in so they'll search anyhow. I don't think the courts have quite finished speaking on that one yet.
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Old 15-08-2013, 14:07   #40
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Re: US Customs Issue

I also just remembered this. The marina I'm docked at is a port of entry for customs purposes.
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Old 15-08-2013, 14:09   #41
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Are you certain that it is not ICE officers? The would regularly (once every 3 months) do a sweep of the marina I was living in, in San Diego. They would check papers of all hispanic workers looking for illegals (oops, sorry, undocumented) workers.
They came by RIB, orange and loaded with firearms, comm's, bullet proof vests and attitude. Living aboard I got to know them and they always asked permission to board, polite, but businesslike. They even accepted ice tea after we got to know each other! Generally, good guys but I wouldn't want to mess with them. It was hilarious to see the workers without documentation head for the gate in a mob only to be met by a couple of these guys waiting for them in the parking lot with their ICE van. They were all back across the border within a week or two and working on the same boats they had left.
It taught me that this country is NOT serious about immigration. Basically, both sides were good guys and women, one trying to do an impossible job and the others trying to pick up a few yankee dollars. As an immigrant myself (legal), I have a lot of sympathy for both sides. Phil
Unless you're an American caught helping them. At least if you're the guy who just got out after 18 months in jail.
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Old 15-08-2013, 14:20   #42
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Re: US Customs Issue

Found this...seems to be accurate based on my experience after 23 years USCG....some of you guys need a little more info on warrantless searches, reasonable suspicion and probable cause.

I'd say 99% of the time the USCG requests a warrant to go beyond a safety inspection even with probable cause because of the US Court System and personal protections.

Warrantless Searches and Seizures - Page 3

The border search exception also applies to searches conducted at the “functional equivalent” of a border, which is defined as the first practical detention point after a border crossing or the final port of entry. The Eleventh Circuit has established three criteria to determine whether a search occurs at the functional equivalent of a border: (1) reasonable certainty that the person or thing crossed the border; (2) reasonable certainty that there was no change in the object of the search since it crossed the border; and (3) reasonable certainty that the search was conducted as soon as practicable after the border crossing. In addition, under the “extended border search” doctrine adopted by several circuits, government officials may conduct a warrantless search beyond the border, or its functional equivalent, if the following three factors are satisfied: (1) there is “reasonable certainty” or a “high degree of probability” that a border was crossed; (2) there is “reasonable certainty” that no change in the object of the search has occurred between the time of the border crossing and the search; and (3) there is “reasonable suspicion” that criminal activity is occurring.
The border search exception allows the government to conduct warrantless searches for illegal aliens. In United States v. Martinez-Fuerte, the Supreme Court established guidelines for permanent checkpoint stops and searches and held that government officials may stop vehicles at a permanent border checkpoint for brief questioning of the driver and passengers without individualized suspicion. The vehicle and occupants may also be selectively referred to a secondary checkpoint for further questioning without individualized suspicion. Any detention or search beyond this point must be justified by consent or probable cause.
Under certain circumstances, a border search for illegal aliens may justify use of a roving border patrol. A roving border patrol may stop a vehicle in the general area of the border and question its occupants if “specific articulable facts” give rise to reasonable suspicion that the vehicle may contain illegal aliens. The officer who stops the vehicle may inquire about citizenship, immigration status, and suspicious circumstances, but any further detention or search must be based on consent or probable cause.
Searches at Sea. Coast Guard and customs officers are authorized by statute to board any vessel in U.S. territorial waters to conduct routine document and safety inspections, without a warrant or suspicion of criminal activity, if the vessel is subject to the jurisdiction or operation of U.S. law. Such document and safety inspections are limited to examining documents, visiting the vessel's public areas, examining safety equipment, and entering the hold to obtain the main beam number. Once on board a vessel, if officers develop reasonable suspicion of illegal activity, the officers can expand the search or seize the vessel. Statutes authorizing searches at sea generally do not limit how frequently an individual vessel can be searched. Warrantless document and safety inspections may be conducted even if the inspectors also suspect criminal activity.
Because there is a reasonable expectation of privacy for nonpublic areas of the vessel with limited common access, warrantless searches that extend beyond document and safety inspections require some particularized suspicion of wrongdoing. Limited searches of domestic vessels beyond document and safety inspections require reasonable suspicion of criminal activity, while full “stem-to-stern” searches require probable cause.
Customs officials are authorized to conduct document and safety inspections of foreign or domestic vessels located (1) in the United States, (2) within customs waters, (3) within a “customs-enforcement area,” or (4) in any “other authorized place.” Customs officers are not generally authorized to search vessels on the high seas. However, they are authorized to board and examine a “hovering vessel” wherever it is found, including on the high seas. Customs officers may also pursue a fleeing vessel beyond customs waters if the vessel was originally hailed within customs waters.
Because Coast Guard officers are considered customs officers, they may act pursuant to the statutory authority granted to customs officials. Unlike other customs officials, however, the Coast Guard may conduct inspections of vessels under the jurisdiction of the United States on the high seas.
Foreign vessels within U.S. territorial waters may also be boarded for document and safety inspections without reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. Coast Guard officers may board and search a foreign vessel on the high seas if they have reasonable suspicion that the vessel is subject to U.S. jurisdiction and has violated U.S. law, or if the flag state of the vessel consents. Government officials may board a “vessel without nationality” to determine its true identity. Additionally, true “vessels without nationality” may be treated as if they are U.S. vessels, and they are subject to U.S. jurisdiction and laws.
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