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Old 14-07-2012, 18:56   #46
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Re: Under What Flag Would You Register?

the easiest thing to do is not try to skirt, evade, or avoid any of the rules. Then you can sleep well at night and not pay huge lawyer bills sometime in the future.
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Old 14-07-2012, 19:16   #47
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Re: Under What Flag Would You Register?

The Aussie rego is long and expensive, at least 3K and 3 months, british SSR is 10 days and 25 pounds for 5 years, not illegal. Do it over the internet!! No lawyers now or ever, heaven forbid!!?

Gives you an international registration if you are a citizen of a commonwealth country and have been a taxpayer in GB over last 2 years.
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Old 14-07-2012, 19:30   #48
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Re: Under What Flag Would You Register?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
Thanks our British Passports makes this easy to do, i just looked at a website dealing as agents but as a company or an individual?
Individual.
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Old 14-07-2012, 19:40   #49
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Re: Under What Flag Would You Register?

Quote:
Originally Posted by surfmachine View Post
The Aussie rego is long and expensive, at least 3K and 3 months, british SSR is 10 days and 25 pounds for 5 years, not illegal. Do it over the internet!! No lawyers now or ever, heaven forbid!!?

Gives you an international registration if you are a citizen of a commonwealth country and have been a taxpayer in GB over last 2 years.
Keith.
This is the only reason i'm looking down this path, i started the process in Australia and it's red tape and difficult. The Croatian authorities are very understanding however we want to go on to Greece and need to be registered before being permitted to leave.... Cheers you understand..
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Old 14-07-2012, 19:40   #50
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Re: Under What Flag Would You Register?

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Individual.
Thanks
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Old 14-07-2012, 19:43   #51
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Re: Under What Flag Would You Register?

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the easiest thing to do is not try to skirt, evade, or avoid any of the rules. Then you can sleep well at night and not pay huge lawyer bills sometime in the future.
NOTHING here is evading anything, registration is important and a necessary component of cruising foreign, when we eventually get back to Aussie we pay GST on the purchase price, what we don't want to do is pay it in Europe as well... cheers
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Old 14-07-2012, 19:51   #52
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Re: Under What Flag Would You Register?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
This is the only reason i'm looking down this path, i started the process in Australia and it's red tape and difficult. The Croatian authorities are very understanding however we want to go on to Greece and need to be registered before being permitted to leave.... Cheers you understand..
Quote: ...british SSR is 10 days and 25 pounds for 5 years, not illegal. Do it over the internet!! No lawyers now or ever, heaven forbid!!?

Only thing I would be careful of is that a friend of mine just had the unfortuante dilema of loosing his ships papers and is registered with the SSR. He says it has proved to be a nightmare to get them to re-issue.

For this reason I think it is a good idea to have an agent act on ones behalf ... Just my thoughts though ... and, yes, a little more expensive but cheap when the day comes that you need professional assistance
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Old 14-07-2012, 19:54   #53
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Re: Under What Flag Would You Register?

Quote:
Originally Posted by impi View Post
Quote: ...british SSR is 10 days and 25 pounds for 5 years, not illegal. Do it over the internet!! No lawyers now or ever, heaven forbid!!?

Only thing I would be careful of is that a friend of mine just had the unfortuante dilema of loosing his ships papers and is registered with the SSR. He says it has proved to be a nightmare to get them to re-issue.

For this reason I think it is a good idea to have an agent act on ones behalf ... Just my thoughts though ... and, yes, a little more expensive but cheap when the day comes that you need professional assistance
I agree we shall go down the Gibralter agent solution i was more agreeing regarding the SLOW Aussie registration that we have given up on. Which agent did you use?
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Old 14-07-2012, 19:57   #54
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Re: Under What Flag Would You Register?

I sent an enquiry to FORM A CO....
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Old 14-07-2012, 20:22   #55
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Re: Under What Flag Would You Register?

Some flags are better than others.

I would register my boat under a flag that has plenty of blue (for the ocean) maybe some yellow (for the sun). I like Antarctic flag a lot and also Barbados.

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Old 14-07-2012, 20:38   #56
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Re: Under What Flag Would You Register?

Dominica's flag has a purple parrot.
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Old 14-07-2012, 20:46   #57
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Re: Under What Flag Would You Register?

Jimmy say's parrots are good!!!!
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Old 15-07-2012, 05:00   #58
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Re: Under What Flag Would You Register?

At the risk of thread drift......

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
DOJ, Channel island company law and tax etc, is a specialized area unto itself. for ordinary EU people you can break the law just by having a bank account there
ordinary EU people can break the law by having a bank account at home, let alone elsewhere in the EU. having a bank account in the Channel Islands (or any other "offshore" jurisdiction) is exactly the same. The problems arise simply from not declaring what you have (where required to by the law in your home country). If it wasn't like that more folks here would be picking spuds!

Quote:
In most jurisdictions companies must trade. ( i.e. you cannot be loss making for ever).
But the benefit of a Jersey / Offshore Company that is aso resident offshore is that it is not in another jurisdiction so it can do WTF it wants (including being loss making forever. or simply owning a boat or a goldfish ).....for the owner of the company there may well be tax reporting requirements in home country (and the Jersey Company may well be "looked through" by the home tax authorities (as if it did not exist and the assets / income were owned personally) but that is a seperate matter to being legally allowed to do pretty much WTF it wants). The Jersey Company pays tax - but at the rate of 0% (as does my company ). If the Owner is not resident in Jersey he is not subject to Jersey Income Tax (just whatever is due elsewhere), unlike me who has to pay nearly 20% .

Really the big benefit of a Jersey company is simplicity (in annual paperwork) being tax neutral (within Jersey) with the Jersey tax side also requiring minimal paperwork or reporting - the complications come from other jurisdictions and there laws / tax laws. Of course nothing comes for free - and there is a cost to having a company based over here as need to put hand in pocket to have set up and run. Nowadays you do need a good reason to justify the cost - as likely looking at a couple of Łk a year for even the most basic holding company.

Quote:
Usually trusts are used to hold just assets.
Yeah, usually. Lots of benefits to those, some downsides (everything has).

Quote:
IN the EU you do not have the benefit of corporate anonimity ( in general ) this is one of the peculiarities of the channel islands
I am not terribly sure if that is true, certainly the info for a Jersey Company on ownership and the specifics on what a company owns / does is not available to the public. But then again, could say exactly the same as your (or my) bank account. But overall the info to trace ownership and activity (if legally required) is held at least to the equivalent (if not better!) than other Jurisdictions - just not for casual (nosey?) enquirers. Privacy vs Secrecy?

Quote:
Most of boats registered into corporate entities are or were dodging tax, many were caught and the clamp down continues. IN particular sailing around as a EU resident in a Channel island registered boat is like a red rag to a bull. ( the french LOVE inspecting them)
But if you have your paperwork in order, then not a great problem, and sometimes that paperwork even includes that the VAT has been paid (just as an aside, nowadays over here if a boat was to be based in the EU by an EU resident (and a regulated services provider was used) then 99% of the time it would be the case that if no VAT was paid on the boat that written advice would be required from a tax proffessional (and not a cut and paste from the Internet! - someone with PII insurance!). As you suggest, "the good old days" are long gone.

FWIW, if someone was after to do something "naughty" on boat VAT then better places to do that than using Jersey. From what I can tell the good VAT frauds always seem to involve the UK........
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Old 15-07-2012, 05:20   #59
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Re: Under What Flag Would You Register?

Quote:
Originally Posted by impi View Post
Quote: ...british SSR is 10 days and 25 pounds for 5 years, not illegal. Do it over the internet!! No lawyers now or ever, heaven forbid!!?
From the SSR Registry:-

https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/ssr/ssr/notes.asp

Who may register a small ship?


A small ship may be registered if it is owned by one or more of the following persons who are 'ordinarily resident' in the UK:-
  • British citizens
  • Persons who are nationals of a European Union or European Economic Area country other than the United Kingdom and are established * in the UK
  • British Dependant Territories citizens; British Overseas citizens; persons who under the British Nationality Act 1991 are British subjects; persons who under the Hong Kong (British Nationality) Order are British Nationals Overseas, and
  • Commonwealth citizens not falling within those paragraphs.
Guidance notes:-

4) What does ordinarily resident mean?

For the purposes of registering a ship it means living and sleeping in the UK for a significant part of the year. A person may be considered to be ordinarily resident in the country in which they live for a period of, or periods, which collectively amount to 185 days or more in a twelve month period. If you are resident in the UK for tax purposes, you will generally be regarded as resident for the purpose of registration.


My main concern with claiming to be a UK resident (when you are not) is not so much any legalities involved in lying - but the simple act of registering for the SSR creates a written declaration from "you" that you are an EU Resident - which may make it hard to later claim you are not (for VAT purposes). Can't have it both ways.

Personally if I was a Customs man then I would simply give you a VAT Bill and say "argue it in court" (which likely means paying the VAT Bill first, otherwise boat remains impounded).

Boats is all about choices.
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Old 15-07-2012, 05:26   #60
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Re: Under What Flag Would You Register?

A lot of Turkish owned boats fly the American flag.
I am told its very easy and cheap to register.

I don't know if this helps, but it's another option.
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