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08-11-2015, 22:22
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#106
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Switzerland
Boat: So many boats to choose from. Would prefer something that is not an AWB, and that is beachable...
Posts: 1,314
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Re: Traveled to 9 countries without a passport
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer
As to my own unwitting attempts to cross borders illegally....
Once I accidentally drove across the W. Germany to Austia border, and only noticed when I saw a solider with a gun running after me in my rear view mirror.
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That must have been shortly after WW-II I guess...
Quote:
Another time I was driving through a small town in Luxomburg, down a small street adjoining some farm land, when I got stopped unknowingly at the Swiss border.
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At the border between Luxemburg and Switzerland? But given that you are apparently old enought to have been driving around Europe in mixing up your memories may be understandable :-)
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08-11-2015, 22:25
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#107
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Switzerland
Boat: So many boats to choose from. Would prefer something that is not an AWB, and that is beachable...
Posts: 1,314
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Re: Traveled to 9 countries without a passport
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer
And in the same way, democracy cannot survive overpopulation. Human dignity cannot survive it. Convenience and decency cannot survive it. As you put more and more people onto the world, the value of life not only declines, but it disappears. It doesn't matter if someone dies.
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Good thing the population explosion is over then.
Now just build enough bathrooms.
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09-11-2015, 05:13
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#108
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 32,058
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Re: Traveled to 9 countries without a passport
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer
From Issiac Asimov
In response to this question by Bill Moyers: What do you see happening to the idea of dignity to human species if this population growth continues at its present rate?] " ....
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One of my favourite Isaac Asimov quotes:
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ' my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
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Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"
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09-11-2015, 05:21
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#109
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Senior Cruiser

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 4,092
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Re: Traveled to 9 countries without a passport
Quote:
Originally Posted by K_V_B
That must have been shortly after WW-II I guess...
At the border between Luxemburg and Switzerland? But given that you are apparently old enought to have been driving around Europe in mixing up your memories may be understandable :-)
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1) About 1990?
2) Technically Liechtenstein, but all those wee ones look alike anyway.
However, your point about age and memory is, uh, ??? Oh yeah, forgotten!
Uh , correct.
A good memory is an over rated asset, especially when you get to choose what you loose.
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11-11-2015, 04:23
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#110
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Switzerland
Boat: So many boats to choose from. Would prefer something that is not an AWB, and that is beachable...
Posts: 1,314
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Re: Traveled to 9 countries without a passport
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer
1) About 1990?
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Must have bene before 1995 at least. However I remember that before Austria joining the EU we were just waved through at the border...
Quote:
2) Technically Liechtenstein, but all those wee ones look alike anyway.
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This is important however, as there are no border posts between Liechtenstein and Switzerland. They have been in a customs union since forever.
This was a bit of an issues when Switzerland joined Schengen and Liechtenstein for some techinical reason could not join till a few months later. As a result the Swiss - Liechtenstein border became an exterior Schengen border, which had to be heavily guarded. Yet there is no border infrastructure there whatsoever. So for a few months they installed a few cameras at the border, and that was it...
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11-11-2015, 09:57
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#111
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Cebu
Boat: Cranchi Atlantique 48
Posts: 274
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Re: Traveled to 9 countries without a passport
Several people have talked about crimes that do not harm anyone, as if they are negligible.
I would just like to point out that the majority of laws and crimes in the world, are about things that do not harm anyone in particular.
Smuggling drugs, for example, or carrying a weapon where it is not allowed. Smoking pot. Printing fake money. Building without planning permission. Having sex with someone slightly too young. Illegal left turns. Insider trading. Failing to declare income for tax purposes. And yes, sneaking across borders. I think if you count, you will find that very few laws and crimes are actually about violence or hurt to anyone. Yet, I think you need to either respect all laws, or none... You cannot cherry-pick just a few.
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11-11-2015, 10:50
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#112
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: So Cal
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 950
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Re: Traveled to 9 countries without a passport
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay
One of my favourite Isaac Asimov quotes:
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
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Ahhh... The force was strong with Mr. Asimov. May need to go read Foundation again see if the suck fairy has visited it. Unfortunately so much from the 'golden age' of SF hasn't aged all that well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zven
Several people have talked about crimes that do not harm anyone, as if they are negligible.
I would just like to point out that the majority of laws and crimes in the world, are about things that do not harm anyone in particular.
Smuggling drugs, for example, or carrying a weapon where it is not allowed. Smoking pot. Printing fake money. Building without planning permission. Having sex with someone slightly too young. Illegal left turns. Insider trading. Failing to declare income for tax purposes. And yes, sneaking across borders. I think if you count, you will find that very few laws and crimes are actually about violence or hurt to anyone. Yet, I think you need to either respect all laws, or none... You cannot cherry-pick just a few.
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I completely disagree. Much of what you cite would/could cause harm. Harm to property: Printing fake money reduces the value of real money - it's essentially theft from everybody using the currency. Same with tax avoidance.
Harm to people: Illegal left turns are illegal because of the wrecks cause by folks making illegal left turns. Psychological damage of the sexually abused underage is reasonably well documented. Building codes exist because people/property was damaged and the rules were changed.
NOBODY is 100% law abiding. I've been drunk in public. (Does a Jimmy Buffet concert count as public?) I speed. Sometimes I roll slowly through a 4-way stop. All pretty minor stuff. Could speeding cause harm - yup.
Sometimes civil disobedience is indeed necessary. One could argue that the whitefolks in the front of the bus were harmed when Rosa sat there. That's a lousy argument imho.
Passport? I'd take mine. Don't see what I gain by not. As long as the political boundaries are managed by separate sovereign nations, they can ask for my passport at the border. They can do anything they want at the border, it's their country.
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11-11-2015, 12:10
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#113
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Currently in South Pacific. Home Port: Vienna, Austria
Boat: Celestial, Stay'sl-Rigged Sloop, 48 ft
Posts: 1,176
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Re: Traveled to 9 countries without a passport
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepbluetj
Ahhh... The force was strong with Mr. Asimov. May need to go read Foundation again see if the suck fairy has visited it. Unfortunately so much from the 'golden age' of SF hasn't aged all that well.
I completely disagree. Much of what you cite would/could cause harm. Harm to property: Printing fake money reduces the value of real money - it's essentially theft from everybody using the currency. Same with tax avoidance.
Harm to people: Illegal left turns are illegal because of the wrecks cause by folks making illegal left turns. Psychological damage of the sexually abused underage is reasonably well documented. Building codes exist because people/property was damaged and the rules were changed.
NOBODY is 100% law abiding. I've been drunk in public. (Does a Jimmy Buffet concert count as public?) I speed. Sometimes I roll slowly through a 4-way stop. All pretty minor stuff. Could speeding cause harm - yup.
Sometimes civil disobedience is indeed necessary. One could argue that the whitefolks in the front of the bus were harmed when Rosa sat there. That's a lousy argument imho.
Passport? I'd take mine. Don't see what I gain by not. As long as the political boundaries are managed by separate sovereign nations, they can ask for my passport at the border. They can do anything they want at the border, it's their country.
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 ^^^ That! ^^^
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"Being offended is not the same thing as being right." Dave Barry.
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11-11-2015, 15:56
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#114
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Senior Cruiser

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 4,092
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Re: Traveled to 9 countries without a passport
KVB, you are quite right, I was going from Austria, into Switzerland, and crossing Lichtienstein in the process.
But as you say, no Infrastructure, just some guy in a little picket house. He got disgusted with me because my passport had gotten washed in my jeans and was looking pretty ragged.
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11-11-2015, 16:42
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#115
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Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,655
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Re: Traveled to 9 countries without a passport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zven
Several people have talked about crimes that do not harm anyone, as if they are negligible............
Yet, I think you need to either respect all laws, or none... You cannot cherry-pick just a few.
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As with most things in life -It Depends.......
As for the all or nothing approach, somebody famous (but I forget who) stated "laws are for the guidance of wise men and the observance by fools".
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All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
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11-11-2015, 23:48
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#116
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Switzerland
Boat: So many boats to choose from. Would prefer something that is not an AWB, and that is beachable...
Posts: 1,314
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Re: Traveled to 9 countries without a passport
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepbluetj
NOBODY is 100% law abiding. I've been drunk in public.
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Being drunk in public should not be a punishable offence (and it isn't where I live). I think the embarrassment is enough punishment already...
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12-11-2015, 11:34
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#117
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: So Cal
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 950
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Re: Traveled to 9 countries without a passport
Quote:
Originally Posted by K_V_B
Being drunk in public should not be a punishable offence (and it isn't where I live). I think the embarrassment is enough punishment already...
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Should I be more embarrassed about being drunk or about admitting I went to a Jimmy Buffet concert?
Drunk in public is one of those laws like "resisting" or "loitering" or "creating a nuisance" that are used by the 5-0 to arrest you whenever/whatever. Highly selective enforcement. (Don't get me wrong, the selective enforcement is when something's a 'problem' the rest of the time it's not. Usually.)
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14-11-2015, 15:26
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#118
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Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Pacific
Boat: Contessa OOD34
Posts: 50
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Re: Traveled to 9 countries without a passport
There is no way you could get entry to New Zealand without a passport. You would be deported on the next flight. This guy sounds like a complete idiot and i hope he is in jail now.
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Sailboat Minder
Boat Minding - Boat Sitting - Sailboat relocations for Fly and Cruise owners.
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14-11-2015, 21:07
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#119
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Boat: Island Packet 40
Posts: 1,580
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Re: Traveled to 9 countries without a passport
There is no way you could get entry to New Zealand without a passport. You would be deported on the next flight. This guy sounds like a complete idiot and i hope he is in jail now.
Interesting, a bunch of NZ criminal types just assisted in severely damaging an Australian immigration detention centre and a large proportion of Australians are wondering why we cannot just put them on and aeroplane and send them back to NZ?
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14-11-2015, 21:40
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#120
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Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Pacific
Boat: Contessa OOD34
Posts: 50
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Re: Traveled to 9 countries without a passport
Yes they did. Am im sure they all had passports and visas when the arrived in Australia. The only reason they are there is because Australia loves them to much and wont let them leave haha.
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Boat Minding - Boat Sitting - Sailboat relocations for Fly and Cruise owners.
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