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markv · 23-06-2014, 10:13

I am taking delivery of a new Lagoon 450 in July, in France. Although I am a British citizen, I am not resident in UK, and I have already tried going through a relatives address in UK to get part 3 registration, and been asked by email to provide proof of residency in UK.

I would like a British Ensign, and will be heading to Gibraltar as our first stop, but I need to have the boat registered before I leave France. I would need a tonnage certificate, but at the moment cannot seem to find anyone who does that near the marina at les Sables-d'Olonne.

Anyone got any ideas on best practice for boat registration when taking delivery of a new yacht from Lagoon?

svlamorocha · 23-06-2014, 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by markv

I am taking delivery of a new Lagoon 450 in July, in France. Although I am a British citizen, I am not resident in UK, and I have already tried going through a relatives address in UK to get part 3 registration, and been asked by email to provide proof of residency in UK.

SNIP I would need a tonnage certificate, but at the moment cannot seem to find anyone who does that near the marina at les Sables-d'Olonne.

Anyone got any ideas on best practice for boat registration when taking delivery of a new yacht from Lagoon?

Did you come across http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/surveyo.../Maxsurveying/ ?

When I had to find a person qualified to issue a British Part I tonnage certificate in a strange place I ended up talking to YBDSA and IIMS, who referred me to their members that worked or travelled to the area where my boat was. Here you have three email addresses: ca at iims dot org dot uk, tricia at ybdsa dot co dot uk and jay at ybdsa dot co dot uk.

Just make sure you specify that you want a "British tonnage survey"; otherwise you will get a list of people who do normal insurance surveys.

I am afraid the Part I reg will not be as quick as the Part II registration that can be done online and immediately. With a bit of luck you live outside the EU and the Part I registration will save you from claiming UK residency that could platy against you on the VAT front.

Cheers

BandB · 23-06-2014, 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by markv

Although I am a British citizen, I am not resident in UK, and I have already tried going through a relatives address in UK to get part 3 registration, and been asked by email to provide proof of residency in UK.

You said you're not a UK resident, then said you'd been asked to provide proof you are. But you're not. To register in the UK you must live there at least 185 days a year.

So why go through the hassle plus break the law? Why not register it with a flag of convenience from one of the many countries that fit? Is there some way that would cause you problems?

Zanshin · 24-06-2014, 16:28

You can get a provisional Part I registration without a tonnage survey, for a period of time. I did so, as my boat was being delivered in the USA and I couldn't find a YBDSA certified surveyor I wanted. Once in the BVI I had the tonnage survey done and once the MCA got that paperwork I got my full registration.

markv · 05-07-2014, 12:28

@ BandB - No real problems getting registered in Gibraltar or UK Part 1, I was trying to get it done quickly. The boat will be delivered 21 July, and I want to sail down to Gibraltar end of July, but not supposed to go anywhere without registration. So I have to find a Tonnage Surveyor, get that to the registration authority and get a certificate back in time to sail ..so 10 days to get that sorted. Cannot do it any sooner, because the boat is not available to the surveyor. Since all boats are the same from Lagoon (or near enough), not sure why they cannot have that done at the factory by someone for an extra price, would make things a lot easier...

I was curious to know what others who want a Red Ensign registration have done when taking delivery of a new Lagoon from the factory in France.

@Zanshin _ will try and get a provisional one done for UK Part 1...and get it surveyed in Gibraltar if that is an option...will investigate that more...

monte · 06-07-2014, 02:32

Mark, we took deliivery of our Lagoon400 last month in Les Sables. I believe Lagoon can supply a tonnage certificate if required so check with your broker. We registered Australian so didnt need one, but Lagoon regularly hand boats to delivery crews so Im sure they are used to the registration process for most countries.
Pity about the English rego, I had heard it was quite easy to get using a relatives address, I guess times have changed.
Note whatever rego you get can take a while so best to get onto it straight away. Most countries require actual paperwork, not scans or emails so the sooner you can send the marking documents, handover documents etc, the better. This can eaasily add 2 weeks from delivery to the time you can legally sail. You wont be able to sail without registration as thats one of the documents required for checking in to any country, as well as asked for by any customs officials en route, as well as being a risk that your insurance will be void.
In our case we had to collect the boat, mark the boat with official number and name, send away the marking note and handover documents and buliders certificate via registered mail, then wait 10 days for the registration to be finalized. After that you can receive your MMSI # and program the VHF and AIS transmit.
Lagoon allows you to stay on their dock for about 10 days without charge usually.

BandB · 06-07-2014, 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by markv

@ BandB - No real problems getting registered in Gibraltar or UK Part 1, I was trying to get it done quickly. The boat will be delivered 21 July, and I want to sail down to Gibraltar end of July, but not supposed to go anywhere without registration. So I have to find a Tonnage Surveyor, get that to the registration authority and get a certificate back in time to sail ..so 10 days to get that sorted. Cannot do it any sooner, because the boat is not available to the surveyor. Since all boats are the same from Lagoon (or near enough), not sure why they cannot have that done at the factory by someone for an extra price, would make things a lot easier...

I was curious to know what others who want a Red Ensign registration have done when taking delivery of a new Lagoon from the factory in France.

@Zanshin _ will try and get a provisional one done for UK Part 1...and get it surveyed in Gibraltar if that is an option...will investigate that more...

But am I correct or did I misinterpret when you said you are not a UK resident, which means it's not legal for you to register there? I don't argue that you can break the law and do so, but I don't see the purpose in that.

monte · 06-07-2014, 11:38

It's pretty common to do that to fly the red ensign. It's less conspicuous in some countries. One option is to have your relatives write a letter saying you are staying with them and send in there utility bills as proof. Pity they make it difficult for a citizen to register his boat there...

BandB · 06-07-2014, 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by monte

It's pretty common to do that to fly the red ensign. It's less conspicuous in some countries. One option is to have your relatives write a letter saying you are staying with them and send in there utility bills as proof. Pity they make it difficult for a citizen to register his boat there...

Doesn't matter how common it is, if it's still illegal. And unnecessary. I guess I just don't understand the reasoning.

monte · 06-07-2014, 12:27

Well look at it this way. The guy is British but not living there. Maybe working in Asia or whatever. So because he is working overseas he can't register it in his home country because of buerocratic bs? Not very cool in my opinion.

BandB · 06-07-2014, 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by monte

Well look at it this way. The guy is British but not living there. Maybe working in Asia or whatever. So because he is working overseas he can't register it in his home country because of buerocratic bs? Not very cool in my opinion.

I agree not very cool, but that doesn't make it legal then does it? And the fact is that as he asked how others handled this, most register the boat in a Flag of Convenience. That avoids all the problems. Don't require the British document, nor the residence. Could be done within 72 hours and sometimes within 24. Can be costly depending on country.

svlamorocha · 06-07-2014, 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by BandB

But am I correct or did I misinterpret when you said you are not a UK resident, which means it's not legal for you to register there? I don't argue that you can break the law and do so, but I don't see the purpose in that.

You are confusing Part 1 and Part 3. Any British Citizen can register in Part 1 even if he/she lives outside the UK.

svlamorocha · 06-07-2014, 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by BandB

I agree not very cool, but that doesn't make it legal then does it? And the fact is that as he asked how others handled this, most register the boat in a Flag of Convenience. That avoids all the problems. Don't require the British document, nor the residence. Could be done within 72 hours and sometimes within 24. Can be costly depending on country.

I disagree.

In my experience (from people we met in anchorages in Caribbean and Pacific) it is not true that that most Brits who have not been in the UK for a while register their boats under FOCs. The majority have British reg, be it Part III (stretching the residence requirement) or Part I (no residence requirement but need a tonnage certificate that can be expensive away from the UK). FOCs (Jersey the most common) were few and far between.

In addition, I believe it is misleading to say that FOC registration can be done within 48 or 24 hours, at least not the more reputable ones. If you know of a reputable FOC registration that can be obtained in 48 hours please tell us which country, what is the initial cost and what is the annual cost.