To Be Armed or Not?

[James S]

I agree.
I don’t see the justification for closing this thread.
It’s been very informative for me and I appreciate the detail in the posts and the real world, real case scenarios.

I would like to here about Turkey and the area, if any of you can comment.

I would also like to hear about the way declaring a shotgun in Australia would be handled.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Kiteboarder

Ok people, I'm seeing some of you are getting irritated. I've found this thread quite informative. I actually vote to have it stopped but not erased. Stopped so that it cannot get all out of control, but still kept here for the benefit of those would want to read it and learn a thing or two.

Yes, I agree, I'm too naive probably but it did much better than previous ones ;-)

Go ahead Paul, lock it.

ciao!
Nick.

[Kiteboarder]

Hey Nick, I have one final question before this thing gets locked. I don't know much about guns. Many a reader, won't either.

Common sense tells me why a hand gun would be frowned upon, same goes for something like an AR15 or other BIG GUNS.

But, my question is this: What is it about a shotgun that makes it less prone to being confiscated, held, scrutinized further, etc. etc? Is it that they are mainly used as defense weapons only? Is it the sheer size that makes it impossible to hide what makes it more "allowable"?

[meyermm]

"But, eventually I would like to do some long distance cruising."

[TexSail]

A shotgun is effective at close range but is very unlikely to hurt innocents a mile away with a stray shot. Maybe that is the difference.

[Tellie]

I'm sure the powers that be are watching this thread closer than the rest. So far they have shown unusual restraint, for that I'm impressed and thankful. But I'm off to the Palm Beach show and can't comment until next week. I just wanted to commend you Nick on some great realistic posts. I've again reconsidered the value of a gun on board because of your input. The decision to be armed or not is far more important to many than which brand of dingy to buy. Therefore it is a topic that should be discussed. If it were simply a matter of researching old threads without new input needed I would suggest the vast majority of topics would fall into the same category. The whole idea of new input could be eliminated and this whole board shut down and nothing more than old threads could be researched for just about anything sailing related. So as I step down from my soap box I want to again compliment the Mods for letting this one ride a bit longer than usual.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by James S

I agree.
I don’t see the justification for closing this thread.
It’s been very informative for me and I appreciate the detail in the posts and the real world, real case scenarios.

I would like to here about Turkey and the area, if any of you can comment.

I would also like to hear about the way declaring a shotgun in Australia would be handled.

Well, the thread is alive still... so we post ;-)

Australia, from one of the Jimmy Cornell bibles:

Firearms must be declared on entry. All military-type firearms (greater than .22), machine guns, pistols, revolvers, ammunition, as well as flick knives and knuckledusters are prohibited imports, and will be sealed on board or taken into custody at the first port of entry. Arrangements can be made to transport them to the port of departure if sufficient notice is given of that port and the date of departure. Sporting rifles and shotguns may be kept on board if a permit is obtained from the police.

So, Australia is just like all the rest. You can have any .22 gun plus sporting rifles and shotguns if you care to obtain a permit. Sporting rifles is an interesting definition... for example, a M16 is military but the AR15 is often considered a sporting rifle while it is basically the same rifle.
Aussie regulations also open another interesting angle: how about a Walther PPK pistol in .22 (James Bond's gun)...

Also, this proves that the authorities can transport your gun to port of departure in Australia.

Turkey, from the same source: declare and keep aboard, like Bahama's.

cheers,
Nick.

[Exocet]

I find it very curios this idea of haveing a gun while cruiseing. Taking the boat out of the picture and putting a car or camper in it's place, would we still be disscusing the need for a gun. Chance of being mugged on land is far greater than at sea, yet I do not hear of a debate like this in the camping community?

[SCCatSailor]

Originally Posted by Exocet

I find it very curios this idea of haveing a gun while cruiseing. Taking the boat out of the picture and putting a car or camper in it's place, would we still be disscusing the need for a gun. Chance of being mugged on land is far greater than at sea, yet I do not hear of a debate like this in the camping community?

Can't say if the "camping community" has a similar debate or not. But, camping is an excellent analogy: possibly being out in the middle of nowhere, far from "civilization", isolated, no 911 service - just like some of the places one might cruise. I'd seriously consider being armed in that situation, whether it's on my boat or in a tent. Although I probably don't have to worry about bears and mountan lions on my boat...............!

[Exocet]

I See you are from USA. Ever go to Mexico or Canada as a tourist by plane or car? Did you bring a gun? If you did not bring a gun in those circumstances, why the gun on a boat? As far as protection against animals, the only animal posing the real threat would be the two legged kind.

[SCCatSailor]

Originally Posted by Exocet

I See you are from USA. Ever go to Mexico or Canada as a tourist by plane or car? Did you bring a gun? If you did not bring a gun in those circumstances, why the gun on a boat? As far as protection against animals, the only animal posing the real threat would be the two legged kind.

My philosophy is this: When I'm a land tourist, staying in hotels, etc., I have a reasonable expectation that law enforcement, or a hotel's private security can be summoned quickly if needed. When I'm on my boat (or camping, I suppose), particularly in secluded areas, official help cannot be relied upon and I'm responsible for my family's and my own safety. You may certainly disagree, but it's my philosophy.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Kiteboarder

Hey Nick, I have one final question before this thing gets locked. I don't know much about guns. Many a reader, won't either.

Common sense tells me why a hand gun would be frowned upon, same goes for something like an AR15 or other BIG GUNS.

But, my question is this: What is it about a shotgun that makes it less prone to being confiscated, held, scrutinized further, etc. etc? Is it that they are mainly used as defense weapons only? Is it the sheer size that makes it impossible to hide what makes it more "allowable"?

The limited range as mentioned by TexSail is the biggest technical reason I think. But there's also the historical/cultural part: many households around the world used to have one for hunting and protection. They are like a fishing rod. Very good info can be found here: Shotgun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Exocet

I find it very curios this idea of haveing a gun while cruiseing. Taking the boat out of the picture and putting a car or camper in it's place, would we still be disscusing the need for a gun. Chance of being mugged on land is far greater than at sea, yet I do not hear of a debate like this in the camping community?

Well, there are special back-packer versions for starters. Also, out in the bush/mountains/wilderness many cars & campers have a gun rack with at least a shotgun. I'm quite sure I've seen that on Aussie TV series/films too. Remember Dactari or what was it called? ;-) Sports fisherman in Canada and Alaska often have a very big caliber side-arm or rifle for protection against bears. Or their guide has. Alaska has a special hunting license that is for protection against wildlife only, meaning you aren't allowed to hunt and take game. There are "snake guns" in many countries, small versions of shotguns for protection against snakes of the reptile kind.

I just found this page: Gun politics in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It says:

About 5.2% of Australian adults (765,000 people)[1] own and use firearms for purposes such as hunting, controlling feral animals, collecting and target shooting. Low levels of violent crime through much of the 20th Century kept levels of community concern about firearms low. However, in the last two decades of the century, following several mass killings and rising concern, the Australian Governments co-ordinated more restrictive firearms legislation with all State Governments.

So plenty Aussies with guns!

cheers,
Nick.

[Kiteboarder]

Thanks Texsail, and Nick for the answer to the Shotgun question. I'm from Puerto Rico, a place that obviously has it's share of gun problems. Yet, we've never needed any protection from animals. (Except the 2-legged kind). I'm sure other types of guns far outnumber shotguns there.

I feel the same way about the camper comment... I might not consider a gun if I'm in a familiar, low-crime area. But if I'm going to venture out further, that might be another story.

[meyermm]

Nick is now an authority on Australia as well as guns center. I am Australian and live in Australia so I might know a little more about the place than Nick. But then again if you read it on the net it must be true. Farmers have guns. Police have guns. Many citizens have guns. But they are very tightly licensed including where they are allowed to be taken. How many countries use specially trained dogs to search your boat on arrival for items other than drugs?

[captain58sailin]

I live in Alaska and I live with bears, and have had several different "close" encounters with them as well. I made a deal with the bears long ago, I told them I wouldn't come into the woods hunting them if they did not come on the boat hunting me. That said we have both honored our agreements. However every now and then one of the little darlings tries to break into my house, or dig under it to create a den, at which time I have to discourage them with a shotgun, mind you I don't shoot them, I shoot over them, and if they care to escalate the encounter then I am prepared to do so, thus far I have not had to do that.
A gun is a tool just like a pair of pliers, neither good nor evil, it is the intent of the user of said tool that brings the different results, sometimes unintended results that are horrific. So it is incumbent on the person who uses this tool to understand the grave consequences that can possibly arise when said tool is used. If you don't understand or do not want to live with the possible consequences of using a gun, then leave the guns alone. If you drive drunk or carelessly you may very well be the instrument of your own or someone else's death, which happens far more often than death by gun, cigarettes cause far more deaths every year than guns.