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Old 28-03-2009, 10:00   #121
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Yep. Thats why I fail to understand why they are allowed at all.

Its just grist for dividing people who would otherwise respect each other.

Theres nothing more belittling to me to hear people thoughts on these matters.

I read this forum and the vast majority I respect with their good sailing stories, tips, mechanical help, general friendship and a lot more.


But this subject… well, just delete the thread when it starts, every time, in my humble opinion.


Mark
I believe this web site is based in the U.S. We have this thing here about freedom of speech, freedom of thought and a free exchange of ideas. I certainly understand those who disagree with the concept of guns on board, and respect their right to think that way and express it. But to say shut it down because it makes you uncomfortable...............? C'mon. There's a simple solution for you: don't read this thread or any like it. I happen to appreciate the open and mostly friendly discussion of this issue about which I'm still unsure.

I guess I'm starting to see why these gun threads typically end badly: the anit-gun zealots find that they can't force agreement with their position and either resort to personal attacks or lobby to have the discussion closed. As I said before, if you don't like it, don't read it.
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Old 28-03-2009, 10:06   #122
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No Guns. I have a black powder cannon considered a saluting device but you should see what a hand full of fishing weights can do.
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Old 28-03-2009, 10:15   #123
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I believe this web site is based in the U.S...
What makes you think a "world wide web" site is, or can be, U.S. based? What makes you think this one is?

Discussions like these often end badly, because the objective technical debate sometimes gets left behind under personal & emotional characterizations.

The statement that “We (in the U.S.) have this thing here about freedom of speech, freedom of thought and a free exchange of ideas” might be taken to suggest that this is a privilege unique to the USA, which the rest of us (non-American) unfortunates don’t share. Some might find this insulting.

The statement that “the anti-gun zealots find that they can't force agreement with their position and either resort to personal attacks or lobby to have the discussion closed” is most definitely an insulting personal characterization, of just the sort the contributor attributes to his victims. Some might feel insulted by this hypocracy.

For the most part, this discussion has remained remarkably civil and enlightening; and free of emotionionally charged invective. It will be too bad if that mature and adult exchange of information, ideas, and opinion cannot continue.
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Old 28-03-2009, 10:47   #124
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What makes you think a "world wide web" site is, or can be, U.S. based? What makes you think this one is?

Discussions like these often end badly, because the objective technical debate sometimes gets left behind under personal & emotional characterizations.

The statement that “We (in the U.S.) have this thing here about freedom of speech, freedom of thought and a free exchange of ideas” might be taken to suggest that this is a privilege unique to the USA, which the rest of us (non-American) unfortunates don’t share. Some might find this insulting.

The statement that “the anti-gun zealots find that they can't force agreement with their position and either resort to personal attacks or lobby to have the discussion closed” is most definitely an insulting personal characterization, of just the sort the contributor attributes to his victims. Some might feel insulted by this hypocracy.

For the most part, this discussion has remained remarkably civil and enlightening; and free of emotionionally charged invective. It will be too bad if that mature and adult exchange of information, ideas, and opinion cannot continue.
Sorry, but I found it equally insulting that that fellow suggested we stop talking about the issue solely because he was uncomfortable with it. Again, if some don't like it, don't read it.
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Old 28-03-2009, 10:49   #125
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I don't find this to be a bad forum. There maybe experiences with other countries that would be of use to those that have not been there.
Some of us in the US like our second amendment rights. I would hope that a US documented vessal would be considered as an extention of the US. I would guess someone else would have to tell me were and were not. Also were to declear a weapon were not to?
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Old 28-03-2009, 11:01   #126
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What makes you think a "world wide web" site is, or can be, U.S. based? What makes you think this one is?
.
Social Knowledge is based in Texas, the servers for this site are in Florida and all the legal mumbo jumbo has a distinctly U.S. flair.
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Old 28-03-2009, 11:15   #127
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SCCatSailor,
I'd have to agree with GordMay. Today, were the server is does not mean a thing.
On the thread, arms on board, some of the best info. may come from contributors out side the US.
I guess I would have to agree, if someone didn't want me to carry in their home. I wouldn't. On the otherhand, I'd leave it in my car in their driveway.
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Old 28-03-2009, 11:24   #128
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SCCatSailor,
I'd have to agree with GordMay. Today, were the server is does not mean a thing.
.
Yeah, but Al Gore invented the internet.
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Old 28-03-2009, 11:33   #129
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I would hope that a US documented vessal would be considered as an extention of the US.
A Foreign vessel is subject to the rules of it's own flag of Registry (i.e the boaty rules ) - not the boaty rules of the country it is visiting (ie I could sail to the US of A and I would not need a picture in the Head telling me how to take a dump on pain of penalty from the USCG ). But just because it is legal for me to have a dump directly into the Marina over here would not mean I could do the same in the US of A simply by waving my Red Ensign IF the US of A had laws requiring me to decant my poop into a holding tank (for later inspection? / collection? by the USCG ).

But a UK (or US etc) boat is not sovereign Territory when abroad......and you can't therefore avoid the local laws (including gun laws) by waving a foreign flag from your boat. and two fingers

I am kinda curious as to what would happen if a) a shotgun was declared and then sealed into an onboard locker and b) the seal was broken in response to a bump in the night (whether precautionary or for very good / bad reasons).......I am guessing the local officialdom will not be happy, but.........
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Old 28-03-2009, 12:15   #130
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David Old Jersey,
David Old Jersey,
Your rignt, breacking it out of the locker would be about the same and an overboard discharge. But as long as the poop remained in the holling tank, it should not be a problem.

What do we know? Nice debating with you on nothing we control.
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Old 28-03-2009, 13:09   #131
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By listing guns in this thread you will have been automatically profiled by Law enforcement agency and criminal organizations. They will read your blog, know your boat and you will know nothing about them. That not a very smart way of preventing crime and there is more to it. It is why I advocated that this thread be removed.
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Old 28-03-2009, 14:08   #132
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We have this thing here about freedom of speech, freedom of thought and a free exchange of ideas.
Cruisers Forum is not effectively based any place. We are a private forum and any rights you have can be picked up at the door on your way out. We make the rules all the time. We don't really care who you know or if you have any weapons at the moment. We can ban you in approximately 3 mouse clicks or about 5 seconds depending on if we are sleepy or not. We are a credible threat.

We as a policy don't promote discussions designed to circumvent the laws of any country not that we always agree with them or that we are in any way forced to do so. We do respect your right to discuss it some place else and believe things as you choose and go where boats or legs might transport you. We can't be everything all the time for everyone and while it pains us at times we accept the limitation.

We close threads just as a janitor sweeps up the dirt on the floor at the end of the day. It makes the place look better and keeps things neat for the next day. This isn't a complicated problem.


Fear not this topic always comes back. I just would like you all to rest up for the next time maybe do a little boating as the northern hemisphere tries to reach for Spring time weather.

Thread closed

By closing it now I don't have to hand out warnings or discipline any members. We don't need to assess blame or name names. If we waited longer we would need to do so. No one needs to be blamed at this point even though the thread was running out. With so much on the board a change of thread would do you all good.
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