Survey: Frequency of USCG Boardings

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by csiunatc

No identification, guns drawn and sneaking up in international waters. If this is their MO, there is going to be a disaster sooner or later with someone defending their boat.

Yep.
.............

[bill352]

This went to the Supreme Court in 1984 (Villamonte-Marquez decision, Justice Brennan dissenting, IIRC) They decided that, in US waters, any law enforcement officer (down to and including Barney Fife on a bass boat) may board and search your boat at any time, day or night, with no warrant and no probable cause. I remember this because it was the last time I wrote irate letters to editors and Congressmen about erosion of civil liberties.

Results? Well, anyone who has ever written to a Congressman will know how much good that does, so I won't even comment. But I remember specifically that the readership of Sail magazine and the membership of Boat US were all in favor of this. "If it saves just one life" and "If it keeps just one teenager off drugs" were the favorite justifications. It seems as if these phrases, now joined by "war on terror", are enough to make normally clear-headed citizens roll over and give up every liberty they've ever had.

My part of the story has a sort of happy ending, though. A few months after this, the Coasties and the locals locked down Boot Key harbor (I think it was) by land and sea and didn't let anyone leave until they had searched every boat. You could hear the screaming from the boating community as far north as Chicago, but, of course, they were hoist by their own, um, halyard. So I wrote another letter to Sail (which they printed, much to my surprise) stating that the sheep were getting what they deserved. Satisfying for me, disastrous for a free country.

Generally speaking, among those who think about such things, it is considered extremely dangerous for a free country to combine military and police powers in a single organization. I don't know if I agree with that, though. I mean, if it saves just one life...

[Trim50]

I'm 100% with you Bill on your first post here.

It sickens me that very few recognize how we have become frogs in a pan of hot water.

[wolfenzee]

What is the USCG allowed to do, what will they do, have all of our constitutional rights been completely removed on the water. There are rumors, myths, etc, such as aggressive boarding with out probable cause, swabbing for drugs and subsequent seizure of a vessel even if they only find traces (example:what if I just bought a boat and the previous owner smoked a joint on it....could I loose my boat/home), there are all sorts of stories floating around [please excuse the pun]. I don't know which is true and which isn't....except for day sailing I do all my cruising up in BC, I don't like to have to restrict my cruising to forgien waters because I am afraid of my own country.

[ssullivan]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

have all of our constitutional rights been completely removed on the water.

The short answer is: mostly.

The 4th Amendment does not apply to your boat if you are operating navigable waters of the United States.

If your boat is documented, the 3rd Amendment has little use, because law says they can take it for military use.

If you *exercise* your 1st Amendment rights (telling a Coastie to go F himself), you will be in a world of pain...

Here is a list of the amendments for reference.

• First Amendment – Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly; right to petition

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

• Second Amendment – Right to keep and bear arms.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

• Third Amendment – Protection from quartering of troops.

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

• Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

• Fifth Amendment – due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, eminent domain.

No person shall be held to answer for any capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

• Sixth Amendment – Trial by jury and rights of the accused; Confrontation Clause, speedy trial, public trial, right to counsel

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

• Seventh Amendment – Civil trial by jury.

In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

• Eighth Amendment – Prohibition of excessive bail and cruel and unusual punishment.

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

• Ninth Amendment – Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Bill of Rights.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

• Tenth Amendment – Powers of states and people.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

[Chief Engineer]

I didn't even know they had marine assets?

Originally Posted by csiunatc

I was boarded by homeland security and they were a totally differenty story, they snuck up behind us 12+ mi offshore and boarded us with guns drawn without asking questions.

Now, wouldn't that be considered an act of piracy? what would be the ramifications if you fired on this boarding party?

No identification, guns drawn and sneaking up in international waters. If this is their MO, there is going to be a disaster sooner or later with someone defending their boat.

[Sunspot Baby]

Chief, the USCG is now a part of Homeland Security.

George

[bill352]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

What is the USCG allowed to do, what will they do, have all of our constitutional rights been completely removed on the water.

As Capt. Sully says, mostly. But as a practical matter, the answer is a flat yes, unless you have lots and lots of money and are willing to spend it on legal fees. And even then don't get yourself declared an "enemy combatant" or you'll just get disappeared for a few years. Earlier in this thread, i2f said that he chooses to play by their rules, and I think that's an excellent choice. You can't afford anything else. And you still have to hope that no one is in a bad mood when you do get boarded. Or you could write to your Congressman.

BTW, even on land your property can be confiscated if the police claim it is involved in drug trafficking, and it may not be returned even if charges are never filed. If that ever happens, though, you should write to your Congressman.

The problem is (to answer your frog-in-a-pot question, Trim) that we all believed the government would only use these powers against drug dealers and terrorists and dirty filthy hippies, and once again, we fail to learn from history. If they can do it to "them", they can do it to you - and they will. Still, if it saves just one life...

End of rant. I'm going over to Yachtworld and look at some boat porn.

[Chief Engineer]

It is hard enough to climb on to a boat with both hands....much less one and the other one holding a gun.

How did they sneak up on you? Since the horizon is about 2.55 NM away.

The ramifications if you fired on Uniformed Members of The USCG?

Dead

Originally Posted by csiunatc

I was boarded by homeland security and they were a totally differenty story, they snuck up behind us 12+ mi offshore and boarded us with guns drawn without asking questions.

Now, wouldn't that be considered an act of piracy? what would be the ramifications if you fired on this boarding party?

No identification, guns drawn and sneaking up in international waters. If this is their MO, there is going to be a disaster sooner or later with someone defending their boat.

[imagine2frolic]

Originally Posted by amytom

I happen to be a field engineer for that "on board lab" USCG is one of our more professional customers.
During Desert Storm we (DDG995) were trained by the coasties for ship boardings and had to perform those duties in the northern Red Sea. Not a fun job at all. Give them respect and don't give them a reason to make mistakes.

My understanding while reading this last sentence. Is if you question the authority they just might come back with a positive instead of a negative? Is that what you are claiming? Is this your experience while doing your job?

When I was boarded it was a case of I have the gun, and you will submit. After speaking with the C.O. when I finally anchored. In defending the C.G. he stated because we are hiring so quick. We cannot always pick the most qualified personel.

These crews are using us as practice. Some have become carried away with power.

[Chief Engineer]

When an LEO stops you on the road or water.....your attitude directs how the interplay will go.

Every time I have been boarded it has been "hey Guys how ya doin?"

If it's hot, a couple a bottles of water go a long way.

Your last two sentences would NEVER EVER come out of a Commanding Officers mouth.

Maybe a correctional officer


[quote=imagine2frolic;202508]
When I was boarded it was a case of I have the gun, and you will submit. After speaking with the C.O. when I finally anchored. In defending the C.G. he stated because we are hiring so quick. We cannot always pick the most qualified personel.

[imagine2frolic]

I couldn't have been anymore polite than I was. I understand my attitude can mean everything. Correction Officer could be right. This crew was no more than thugs. Missing was $200.00 in cash sitting on my nav station. We were less than a mile away from Govt. Cut getting ready to approach the fuel dock.

I believe in their job, and it can't be an easy job. That doesn't mean all civility stops when they board me. This year we were boarded at the fuel dock at Govt. Cut. One could have not asked for a nicer, and more considerate crew than this one. I was so overjoyed I wanted to take them all home for dinner, but that was 400 miles away!

[Chief Engineer]

I am not going to respond to this thread any more...unless I decide to tell the funniest story of USCG boarding(s) I experienced in one day.

[imagine2frolic]

Come on Chief tell us a bedtime story

[ssullivan]

Originally Posted by Chief Engineer

It is hard enough to climb on to a boat with both hands....much less one and the other one holding a gun.

How did they sneak up on you? Since the horizon is about 2.55 NM away.

The ramifications if you fired on Uniformed Members of The USCG?

Dead

I can verify that at least the FL water patrol is very good at sneaking up on you in the ICW.

I was in some stretch of nowhere in northern FL past Fernandina and making some good progress when a boat came out of a little canal, came right up behind me and boarded me before I even knew what was going on.

I has assumed it was just a local boat, not law enforcement.

Got busted for having my Y valve in the wrong position.

They were *very* good at sneaking up when I had my engines running... never heard a thing until it was too late.