Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-07-2014, 14:13   #31
Registered User
 
motaman9's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 151
Re: State Registration with CG Documentation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by motaman9 View Post
BoatUS page says this....I copied the text

"Federally documented vessels are prohibited from using state boat numbering on the hull, though they can display registration stickers."


Sailing somewhere

Also from BoatUS ....

Vessels may only be identified as either a State Registered Vessel or a Federally Documented Vessel - NOT BOTH.
When a vessel becomes federally Documented, the State Registration Numbers and Letters must be removed.
The State Validation Sticker showing proof of paying sales tax may still be displayed on the vessel in accordance with the individual state's regulations.



Sailing somewhere
__________________

__________________
motaman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2014, 14:47   #32
Registered User
 
motaman9's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 151
State Registration with CG Documentation?

Found it ....
From the United States Code section 46



46 U.S.C. 12106 (2007). Surrender of title and number.
(a) In general. A documented vessel may not be titled by a State or required to display numbers under chapter 123 of this title, and any certificate of title issued by a State for a documented vessel shall be surrendered as provided by regulations prescribed by the Secretary. (b) Vessels covered by preferred mortgage. The Secretary may approve the surrender under subsection (a) of a certificate of title for a vessel covered by a preferred mortgage under section 31322(d) of this title only if the mortgagee consents.


§ 12305. Displaying numbers
A number required by this chapter shall be painted on, or attached to, each side of the forward half of the vessel for which it was issued, and shall be the size, color, and type as may be prescribed by the Secretary. No other number may be carried on the forward half of the vessel.
(Pub. L. 98–89, Aug. 26, 1983, 97 Stat. 591.)

In essence....no state title? No registration number exists to be displayed....also display of other (ie non USCG documentation numbers) numbers on forward half of a documented vessel expressly prohibited by 46USC§12305.....

Sorry I'm a legal research nerd


Sailing somewhere
__________________

__________________
motaman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2014, 05:55   #33
Registered User
 
CaptTom's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southern Maine
Boat: Prairie 36 Coastal Cruiser
Posts: 977
Re: State Registration with CG Documentation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by motaman9 View Post
...

(a) In general. A documented vessel may not be titled by a State or required to display numbers under chapter 123 of this title...

§ 12305. Displaying numbers
A number required by this chapter shall be painted on, or attached to, each side of the forward half of the vessel for which it was issued...No other number may be carried on the forward half of the vessel.

In essence....no state title? No registration number exists to be displayed....also display of other (ie non USCG documentation numbers) numbers on forward half of a documented vessel expressly prohibited by 46USC§12305...
I agree your interpretation that:
1) If required by this chapter, state numbers must be displayed.
2) Any numbers NOT required by this chapter are expressly prohibited.

So, no state numbers allowed on a documented boat.

I'm not seeing the connection to a state-issued title though. Most states require a registration for at least some classes of boats that don't require a title.
__________________
CaptTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2014, 06:04   #34
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,953
Images: 6
Re: State Registration with CG Documentation?

Okay, I guess I was wrong. I had searched for this before and never found the part about "No other number may be carried on the forward half of the vessel." So... Oops!
__________________
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2014, 08:10   #35
Registered User
 
motaman9's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 151
Re: State Registration with CG Documentation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptTom View Post
I agree your interpretation that:

1) If required by this chapter, state numbers must be displayed.

2) Any numbers NOT required by this chapter are expressly prohibited.



So, no state numbers allowed on a documented boat.



I'm not seeing the connection to a state-issued title though. Most states require a registration for at least some classes of boats that don't require a title.

I think since the start of "taxing without titling" they "register" the boat but don't officially title it thus not generating a number to display on the hull. I suppose hyper technically if the excise or property tax sticker they issue has a number on it that would be a violation of the federal law to display it on the forward half of the vessel. I have always asserted that this is just another money grab by panicky, broke or greedy state governments....they have gotten by without this money for over a century prior, since, I think the vessel documentation laws went into effect in the 1800's ??


Sailing somewhere.....
__________________
motaman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2014, 09:47   #36
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2014
Boat: Sovereign 24
Posts: 72
Re: State registration with CG documentation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
I can't find where it says consecutive days. All I can find is the following which could be interpreted either way.

Quote:
I will be vacationing in Florida this summer. Do I need to register my vessel there?
Florida recognizes valid registration certificates and numbers issued to visiting boaters for a period of 90 days. An owner who intends to use his vessel in Florida longer than 90 days must register it with a county tax collector. However, he may retain the out-of-state registration number if he plans to return to his home state within a reasonable period of time.
__________________
Phantoms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2014, 10:43   #37
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,953
Images: 6
Re: State registration with CG documentation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantoms View Post
I can't find where it says consecutive days.
Click on the first link, for the Florida Vessel Owners Brochure. The details are in there.
__________________
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-07-2014, 10:14   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2014
Boat: Sovereign 24
Posts: 72
Re: State registration with CG documentation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
Click on the first link, for the Florida Vessel Owners Brochure. The details are in there.
Thank you, I see it there.
__________________
Phantoms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-07-2014, 11:29   #39
Registered User
 
CaptTom's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southern Maine
Boat: Prairie 36 Coastal Cruiser
Posts: 977
Re: State Registration with CG Documentation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by motaman9 View Post
...they "register" the boat but don't officially title it thus not generating a number to display on the hull.
The two terms are not related. All states issue registration numbers for boats registered in their state. The registration numbers are displayed on the forward half of a non-documented boat.

A title is a legal document that proves ownership. Not all states require one. If the title has a number at all, it has nothing to do with what's displayed on the hull.

You can have either, both or none.

Quote:
Originally Posted by motaman9 View Post
I suppose hyper technically if the excise or property tax sticker they issue has a number on it that would be a violation of the federal law to display it on the forward half of the vessel.
Interesting. I'd have to say you're right. We'd have to see if they define the word "displayed" anywhere.[/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by motaman9 View Post
I have always asserted that this is just another money grab by panicky, broke or greedy state governments...
Now on that, there can be no disagreement!
__________________
CaptTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-07-2014, 16:17   #40
Registered User
 
motaman9's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 151
State Registration with CG Documentation?

[QUOTE=CaptTom;1589173]A title is a legal document that proves ownership. Not all states require one. If the title has a number at all, it has nothing to do with what's displayed on the hull. You can have either, both or none(quote)





Every state title I have ever had was numbered with the same number as the state number that was to be displayed on the hull....maybe all states title formats aren't the same ??


Sailing somewhere.....
__________________
motaman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-07-2014, 10:35   #41
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,953
Images: 6
Re: State Registration with CG Documentation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by motaman9 View Post
...maybe all states title formats aren't the same ??
No, all states do not do not do everything the same. I have owned a boat in three different states, and in NONE of them was the number on the title the same as the registration number.
__________________
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-07-2014, 20:12   #42
Registered User
 
motaman9's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 151
State Registration with CG Documentation?

......
__________________
motaman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2014, 08:33   #43
Marine Service Provider
 
Tony B's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Presently in Rogersville, Al
Boat: Mainship 36 Dual Cabin
Posts: 695
Re: State Registration with CG Documentation?

This thing about State Titles and CG Documentation at the same time - When you apply for fed Documentation, you have to send them your title. Your Documentation is in LIEU of a title. The square state sticker that shows you are current in your state registration, that is not an identification of your vessel and so can be displayed which is in accordance with Fed documentation rules.
__________________
Mainship 36 DC - 1986
Retired and Full Time Cruising the Eastern U.S. inland Waterways
www.FreeBoatProjects.com
Tony B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2014, 09:16   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Homeport: Oswego, NY
Boat: 1993 Sabre 362 #113
Posts: 351
Re: State Registration with CG Documentation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by motaman9 View Post
Also cited on

Boat US - Online Boating Safety Study Guide


Sailing somewhere
From the above cited source:

"While federally documented vessels are not required to display state registration numbers, you may still be required to register the vessel with the state, and be required to pay any sales taxes. Federally documented vessels are prohibited from using state boat numbering on the hull, though they can display registration stickers." (emphasis added)

"Not required" implies that can display state numbers if you want.

"Prohibited" means that you can't in any circumstance.

Boat/US you are not very clear here.

On my NY state registration, the registration number is the same as the documentation number.
__________________
Dave Lochner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2014, 09:27   #45
Registered User
 
motaman9's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 151
Re: State Registration with CG Documentation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lochner View Post
From the above cited source:



"While federally documented vessels are not required to display state registration numbers, you may still be required to register the vessel with the state, and be required to pay any sales taxes. Federally documented vessels are prohibited from using state boat numbering on the hull, though they can display registration stickers." (emphasis added)



"Not required" implies that can display state numbers if you want.



"Prohibited" means that you can't in any circumstance.



Boat/US you are not very clear here.



On my NY state registration, the registration number is the same as the documentation number.

Dave....see the later post

There is a specific federal statute that prohibits display of state (or any number for that matter) on the forward half of a documented vessel.....


Sailing somewhere.....
__________________

__________________
motaman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
documentation, men, registration

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Documentation Vs. State Registration csharp Monohull Sailboats 10 05-04-2013 19:56
USCG Documentation/ State Registration alpeckenpa Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 8 08-11-2012 21:47
State Small Craft Registration: Legal as Documentation? Tom Stormcrowe Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 18 08-09-2012 16:19
State Registration to USCG Documentation…? dcstrng General Sailing Forum 2 07-07-2008 10:15
federal documentation/state requirements?? cadye Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 3 24-08-2005 13:23



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:34.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.