Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-05-2010, 13:17   #31
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,895
Dan…. Some guys (mentally) are always racing and that is the scary part
__________________

__________________
Pelagic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2010, 13:45   #32
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
What's not clear is if anyone was actually racing. If these guys were racing each other other rules are in play but if so they would all be more aware and a penalty flag would have been thrown if anyone felt disadvantaged.
Only possible racing was the J-Boat racing himself. But most of us are doing this most of the time. But probably most of don't do it in a narrow channel.
__________________

__________________
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2010, 14:02   #33
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Sailing in channels

In fairness, I should add that I tend to agree with Don more often than not. Indeed, I always put the sails away at the head of the Sausalito channel before returning to port, even when I've got a gentle beam reach that would take me home. The problem with a larger boat is that I don't have sufficient time make corrections in a crowded channel, and on weekends there are too many clueless boaters in that channel, from the kayakers on up.

A friend who makes his living captaining mega-yachts has told me more than once that "The problem with sailboats is they never look behind them before they tack." He says he always uses the appropriate horn signals before overtaking a recreational boat, even if he's certain that the signals will be misunderstood. Most of all he wants the "amateur" to know he's back there.

So does everyone know how to signal a boat of your intentions to overtake? One short blast means "I intend to leave you to port." (In other words, I will overtake you on your starboard side.) Two short blasts means "I intend to leave you to starboard." If you agree with the maneuver being proposed, you signal your agreement by repeating the signal back. (In this case, one or two short blasts.)

http://www.boatus.org/onlinecourse/R...ect/info2d.htm
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2010, 14:21   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 294
Bash:
I don't think a lot of recreational boaters have much beyond the foggiest idea that their horn is any different from their car horn. Meaning, they will interpret TOOT as "Hey, I'm back here and wanted you to know" and TOOT TOOT as "Hey I need to get through here slowpoke!"
I get the impression out there that a lot of less-educated boaters think all those rules and procedures are only for the big professional boats, and are really just a suggestion, if that, for small recreational guys.
__________________
Mariness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2010, 14:51   #35
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
So does everyone know how to signal a boat of your intentions to overtake? One short blast means "I intend to leave you to port." (In other words, I will overtake you on your starboard side.) Two short blasts means "I intend to leave you to starboard." If you agree with the maneuver being proposed, you signal your agreement by repeating the signal back. (In this case, one or two short blasts.)

NAVIGATION SOUNDS
Funny in that a little before this I was asking my wife the same thing (it's even on the back of the air can we have).
__________________
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2010, 18:45   #36
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Dan…. Some guys (mentally) are always racing and that is the scary part
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
Only possible racing was the J-Boat racing himself. But most of us are doing this most of the time. But probably most of don't do it in a narrow channel.
Understand your points and we can derive that the maneuvers were not covered by the racing rules.
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2010, 19:06   #37
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,048
Images: 1
A quick comment about sound signals. The J-Boat, under sail, may not have been required to use them. I was reminded of this a few days myself.

Quote:
RULE 34:
MANEUVERING AND WARNING SIGNALS
When vessels are in sight of one another, a power-driven vessel underway, when maneuvering as authorized or required by these Rules, shall indicate that maneuver by the following signals on her whistle:
· one short blast to mean "I am altering my course to starboard";
· two short blasts to mean "I am altering my course to port";
· three short blasts to mean "I am operating astern propulsion".
However Rule 34(c) (Narrow channel), which may be the situation here, seems not to distinguish between sailing vessels and power-driven vessels in the International Rules. However 34(c) of the Inland Rules refers to power-driven vessels. Rule 34: Maneuvering and Warning Signals

Rule 9 also makes no distinction, but does refer to rule 34.

Quote:
(i) In a narrow channel or fairway when overtaking can take place only if the vessel to be overtaken has to take action to permit safe passing, the vessel intending to overtake shall indicate her intention by sounding the appropriate signal prescribed in Rule 34(c)(i). The vessel to be overtaken shall, if in agreement, sound the appropriate signal prescribed in Rule 34(c)(ii) and take steps to permit safe passing. If in doubt she may sound the signals prescribed in Rule 34(d).
Any suggestions, opinions?

Jack
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2010, 20:18   #38
Registered User
 
Tempest245's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Piscataway, NJ
Boat: 34 Sabre Tempest
Posts: 937
Hi Jack,

In the case of Don's Vessel and the J boat, I believe Rule 13 is the pertinent rule.
" Overtaking"

As Don as stated he was not concerned about the relationship between his vessel and the J boat. He felt the clearance was sufficient and stood-on.

His concern was regarding the other sailing vessel and the J boat. It sounds like the concern was that the J boat would have to alter course to avoid the other vessel which would then force Don to alter his course to avoid the J.

The rules state that the overtaking vessel must stay clear, and cannot alter course once it passes don, to impede, or to gain stand on status.

Not being there, it's difficult to make judgments. It sounds like the J was going too fast in a narrow channel given the traffic.

To the general point of Don's post..close quarters sailing when there doesn't need to be......I tend to give everyone a wide berth even if I am the stand-on vessel. I don't wait until the last 30 seconds..to find out the other vessels intentions.
__________________
Tempest
Tempest245 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2010, 20:22   #39
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,048
Images: 1
Hi Tempest

Right on. My concern was some ambiguity about the requirement for sound signals.
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2010, 22:21   #40
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,152
The COLREG's were never written to try to cover racers who want to go out and play high risk bumper boats. The yacht racing rules were written for this. The major difference is that the yacht racing rules are not law....although there are some racers who seem to think this.

Fortunately with race boats who play by their own rules, lives or millions of dollars of damage to a vessel or the environment are generally not at stake.
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2010, 22:47   #41
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
more suggestion than opinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Any suggestions, opinions?
While I'd rather not comment on whether Boat A is required to signal Boat B in the given situation above, it seems to me that we're too reluctant, as a whole, to signal our intentions.

I've been involved in crossing situations in the past where I've signaled my intentions, as per the rules of the road, and been greeted in response by a raised finger and/or other gestures of hostility.

Goodness!

Hey, take it from someone who has survived 32 years of marital bliss: communication is a good thing.

If I'm on port and you're on starboard, and you haven't seen that I'm altering course, please hail, "Starboard" in a stentorian voice. If I know you're there and I'm planning to duck your transom, I'll yell back, "Hold your course!" and you'll understand that I actually know you're there. Great. We're both relieved, not to mention safer, at that point.

If you're overtaking me, signal me with one or two blasts, depending upon which side you intend to pass. At that point I'll turn around and salute you, because it usually doesn't matter to me what side you pass on, but it's nice for both of us to realize that I know that you're there. And if I don't want you to pass at that point, I'll let you know. This doesn't mean that I hate you; it merely means that I've got a better plan.

Communication works, and the rules of the road work better when communication is happening. If you don't know the sound signals, LEARN THEM. It's a better option than throwing out the COLREGS.
__________________

__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
game

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Docking Game Stede General Sailing Forum 14 25-05-2010 08:23
Chicken Chute Trim? c.spots Seamanship & Boat Handling 8 16-12-2009 08:53
Enough's Enough - I Can't Stand No More Charlie Sailor Logs & Cruising Plans 10 16-06-2009 09:44
Stand alone radar mario f Navigation 6 10-10-2007 23:15
The Boat Name Game GordMay Off Topic Forum 0 02-10-2007 03:43



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:28.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.