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Old 10-12-2012, 13:32   #76
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Re: So many rules in So Cal!

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Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
To me this post represents the basic problem described in this series of messages. People are frustrated with bureaucratic officials and rules and are really tired of dealing with them. But - that is life in our modern and rather complex and interactive society.

I too received a tax bill from California for a boat I bought and paid tax on in Washington. The same thing happened to my brother and to another cruising friend. We all sent California tax people copies of our sales agreements, sales tax receipts, and slip rental receipts from Washington. It probably took me 30 minutes to solve the problem.

No big deal!

But everyone wants to complain about something so the complexity of California rules is a good target.

Personally, I've had far more problems with boating rules in Washington State than I have had in California.
I guess the difference is that the main reason I left CA was that I was tired of abuses like that. What you call 'no big deal' I view as a bridge too far in a LONG, LONG line of abuses. Pursueing me into another state trying to reach into my pocket is just a california thing to do.

And as for not taking credit cards, it's true that Credit card companies USED TO discourage charging fees, that practice was outlawed. Banks slash retailers' debit card fees - May. 3, 2012

And the right hand must not know what the left is doing because I was recently charged a ten dollar 'convenience fee' for paying online. I sure hope that covered their $.24 cost and 100% labor savings.
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Old 10-12-2012, 17:22   #77
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Re: So many rules in So Cal!

Getting back to the original post regarding weird California rules/laws, but also not wanting to turn this into a gun thread. Here's a weird law in LA county:

It's legal to open carry a handgun in a holster cowboy style.... but it must be empty and the bullets must be stored in the opposite side pants pocket. Carrying the legal open carry handgun will also most likely result in getting yourself arrested or shot by a police officer, as they will assume that it's loaded.... which is illegal.

Concealed carry of a firearm is legal with a special permit in LA County... but the permit is basically, unobtainable unless you are a police officer, celebrity or a significant political donor.

I'm not trying to make any kind of gun or political statement here; 'Just pointing out the weirdness.
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Old 10-12-2012, 17:28   #78
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Re: So many rules in So Cal!

I can't comment personally on CA officialdom as I have never sailed there, but I would like to add that many, many times I have heard through the grapevine about some ornery official and discovered that a little bit of commonsense, courtesy, and respect goes a long way in defusing a situation. These folks have to deal with so many a**holes that if you aren't one to them you will get better treatment. Try to put yourself in their shoes, and start there.
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Old 10-12-2012, 17:37   #79
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Re: So many rules in So Cal!

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My husband and I are transiting the Pacific Coast (just got to Ensenada) and we were really astonished about how serious Southern Californians are about making and enforcing rules. Most places that we stop were usually very low key and understanding, but everything changed once we rounded Point Conception.

When we were in Newport Beach we forgot to pay for a couple of extra nights by check out time last Sunday. We were up in Northridge (about 1.5 hours North in good traffic) picking some things up from our friends who agreed to be a mail drop. The sheriff called us and told us that we needed to pay up. We apologized profusely and offered to pay by phone or pay when we returned later that evening (they're open 24 hours). They insisted that we pay in person and told us that we had exactly two hours until they impounded our boat (which would be $150 to release, plus $50 per day). We said goodbye to our friends (who we were barely able to say hello to) and rushed back. Luckily there wasn't much traffic and we made it back in time. It was a rude awakening for sure.

Do you have any good/ridiculous stories about So. Cal rules? Or rules anywhere else for that matter. I'd be really curious to hear them.
No more than a bunch of thug extortionists with guns, employed by a bankrupt state that has been running what amounts to a Ponzi scheme on its citizens. No longer the "Land of the free". I am amazed that Americans just keep taking more and more and getting less and less. Expresso Libre!!!
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Old 10-12-2012, 17:43   #80
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Re: So many rules in So Cal!

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It's legal to open carry a handgun in a holster cowboy style.... but it must be empty and the bullets must be stored in the opposite side pants pocket. Carrying the legal open carry handgun will also most likely result in getting yourself arrested or shot by a police officer, as they will assume that it's loaded.... which is illegal.
According to some here...They're just doing their job...
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Old 10-12-2012, 19:02   #81
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Re: So many rules in So Cal!

I'm the first to agree that California is a nanny-state within a nanny-state (and I am currently a resident thereof). A lot of the people here on CF want to go cruising to get away from that nanny-state environment (although it seems that many still feel the nanny-state entitlement to have their butt pulled out of the sling when they set off the EPIRB).

The OP's case has nothing to do with the nanny-state. The marina operator called them and told them to pay up or have their boat impounded. That is the only recourse the marina operator has to collect from a deadbeat. The OP conveniently omitted the fact that the sheriff was the marina operator, thereby casting this as regulation gone amok. Was the marina operator a d!ck? Quite possibly. Everyone wants to read more into that because s/he is a law enforcement officer. The solution is simple, vote with your wallet and go elsewhere. Write a letter to the manager. Don't patronize the establishment and post a bad review on Yelp (or CF). While there may be a lot of nanny-state in CA, a marina operator trying to collect delinquent slip fees isn't an example of that, it's just one business trying to get what it is owed and using the legal tools it has available to do so. If they do that in a manner that you think is dis-courteous then you don't have to use their services.

This marina operator doesn't take credit cards. Neither does my landlord. Nor Arco gas stations. There is no obligation for a company to take credit cards for your convenience. If you don't like it go elsewhere. Seems like the "they have to take cards" would require a regulation by the nanny-state, no?
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Old 10-12-2012, 19:32   #82
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Re: So many rules in So Cal!

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I'm the first to agree that California is a nanny-state within a nanny-state (and I am currently a resident thereof). A lot of the people here on CF want to go cruising to get away from that nanny-state environment (although it seems that many still feel the nanny-state entitlement to have their butt pulled out of the sling when they set off the EPIRB).

The OP's case has nothing to do with the nanny-state. The marina operator called them and told them to pay up or have their boat impounded. That is the only recourse the marina operator has to collect from a deadbeat. The OP conveniently omitted the fact that the sheriff was the marina operator, thereby casting this as regulation gone amok. Was the marina operator a d!ck? Quite possibly. Everyone wants to read more into that because s/he is a law enforcement officer. The solution is simple, vote with your wallet and go elsewhere. Write a letter to the manager. Don't patronize the establishment and post a bad review on Yelp (or CF). While there may be a lot of nanny-state in CA, a marina operator trying to collect delinquent slip fees isn't an example of that, it's just one business trying to get what it is owed and using the legal tools it has available to do so. If they do that in a manner that you think is dis-courteous then you don't have to use their services.

This marina operator doesn't take credit cards. Neither does my landlord. Nor Arco gas stations. There is no obligation for a company to take credit cards for your convenience. If you don't like it go elsewhere. Seems like the "they have to take cards" would require a regulation by the nanny-state, no?
Does your landlord make you pay your rent in person, every single day?
And Arco DOES take credit cards and has no fee on ATM now.

My issue with a public entity being cash only is that it's a waste of taxpayer money. Handling cash is very, very expensive.
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Old 10-12-2012, 19:44   #83
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Re: So many rules in So Cal!

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My issue with a public entity being cash only is that it's a waste of taxpayer money. Handling cash is very, very expensive.
But, embezzling from a cash only business is so much easier.
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Old 10-12-2012, 19:56   #84
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Re: So many rules in So Cal!

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Does your landlord make you pay your rent in person, every single day?
And Arco DOES take credit cards and has no fee on ATM now.
Not according to their website, and not at any of the Arco's at which I purchase gas.

ARCO - About ARCO

ARCO Gasoline Fill Smart - PayQuick

My landlord collects rent every month, when it is due. If you rent a slip for week, then stay longer I would expect them to collect at the start of the next rental period, just like my landlord.

Quote:
My issue with a public entity being cash only is that it's a waste of taxpayer money. Handling cash is very, very expensive.
Couldn't agree more. Even feel that way about Arco and their debit card fees. What about the cost for the time-lock safe and the armored car service? Nevertheless, that is the policy of the business in question. If you don't like it you don't have to patronize it.
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Old 10-12-2012, 20:00   #85
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Exclamation Re: So many rules in So Cal!

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post

I'm not trying to make any kind of gun or political statement here; 'Just pointing out the weirdness.

Please don't! I really don't need any encouragement. If they would actually let me have one under NSW Australia laws I might be far too tempted to use it the next time a Roads & Maritime boat pulls up to give me a hard time!.
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Old 10-12-2012, 20:12   #86
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Re: So many rules in So Cal!

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Not according to their website, and not at any of the Arco's at which I purchase gas.

Well, count me among those mislead by the billboard!
Ads about Arco ending 45-cent fee might be misleading | Business - The News Tribune
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Old 10-12-2012, 21:03   #87
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Re: So many rules in So Cal!

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Old 10-12-2012, 21:20   #88
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Re: So many rules in So Cal!

If you think all government officials, bureaucrats, law enforcement personell, coast guard personel etc. are assholes personally trying to ruin your day, then that is the attitude you portray and the attitude you will get returned. I have lived aboard for over 15 years and sailed over 20 in the waters between San Francisco and San Diego. I know all encounters with aforementioned people have not been what you would call pleasant, but the vast majority of those encounters were pleasant. I have worked with the public in the gaming industry all of my life. I know what J. Q. Public is like and I let those athoritarian figures know that any interaction with me will not be adverse or unpleasant and that I understand that they have a job to do and a boss to answer to. If you do your best to follow rules and regulations and live up to your commitments you will have minimal interaction with these people. If you resent being boarded by the U.S. Coast Guard, what arrogance do you pocess to have that EPIRB hanging in your salon? If you have never worked with the public, you have never walked in their shoes and guess what, you are the notorious J.Q. Public, whom public servants are forced to deal with every day. That being said, if you think they should leave with a warm and fuzzy feeling after doing whatever their job duty calls for, then maybe you should try to let them know up front that you do not resent their presence nor them having to do the job their boss or superior officers mandate. I do not like authority either, nor do I like chaos. Oh and by the way, the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution of the US is your concealed carry permit, even in So. CA., I have never had a problem with law enforcement when I let them know up front I am armed.
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Old 10-12-2012, 21:42   #89
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Re: So many rules in So Cal!

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If I understand the OP's post, this wasn't a marina employee threatening a boat owner, it was the sheriff's office doing their job, which is to deal with boats parked in unpaid-for slips. And in fact, the sherriff apparently did the OP a favor by chasing her down by phone to give them a heads-up. I suspect they could have simply impounded the boat without warning and begun charging impound fees and penalties etc. But they didn't do that, instead they gave the OP a chance to get right with the marina first.
Correct, it was the sheriff's office doing their job.

I admit to being confused by several posts on this thread.

Does the sheriff's office operate the particular facility in question? Somebody in charge of the marine facility has installed rather harsh policies which are going to draw criticism from their customers who are primarily recreational in nature. For a law enforcement agency to operate that type of business would seem rather outside their area of expertise.
If this facility is operated by the sheriff, is that obvious to a stranger checking in for a transient slip or mooring, or do they think they are dealing with a separate entity?
Also, are the drastic penalties for being late with your dockage pointed out at check-in time?
One post theorized that the op might have already overstayed by several nights. If that's so, since the effort involved in contacting the op probably consisted of looking up their cellphone # on the contract, I wonder why nobody called them sooner to request payment? Sans threats?
If the sheriff does not operate this facility then someone who does operate it needs a refresher course in dealing with the boating public, since the facility would have been the ones to call the sheriff, when they could have called the op.
Or so it seems. It would be informative to hear from the sheriff and/or the marine facility in question, but I doubt any of us are going to hold our breath.


Nobody approves of people being late with their rent. As noted, the op wasn't trying to avoid payment, they were complaining about how they were treated.
From what I can see, I agree with them.
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Old 10-12-2012, 21:54   #90
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My feelings are towards Californians in general, not authority figures specifically. I've dealt with CG, water pcops, sheriffs, whatever....only one time a homeland security crew acted pretty silly (though professional) giving a full on shakedown to 2 grown men in A 12 foot homemade boat sailing around the freeport jetties in TX. Guess they thought we might be smuggling from Cuba ;-)

But really...the worst place in Cali is still better than the best place in a whole lot of other countries I won't name 'cause it'll offend someone :-)
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