So many rules in So Cal!

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Yes, and how onerous that one of them is that you are expected to pay for the services you use in a timely manner. The unmitigated gall!

I am quite sure that you would have made good on your obligation and come back and paid the balance of your debt. Or not. Either way, how the hell is the marina supposed to know what your intentions were? You are a transient, on your way to parts unknown. I wonder how many times the harbor has been burned by other sailors who conveniently "forgot" to pay their bill by the agreed-upon date, and then simply sailed away, never to been seen again? Yes, threatening to impound your boat may have seemed a tad draconian. But once you are gone, their options for collecting from you probably essentially vanish. Of course they're going to enforce the slip rental agreement and it is absolutely unreasonable to expect otherwise.

His boat was still there. They were visiting friends by car and were returning to the boat later in the day but that wasn't good enough.

At least that's the way I read it.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by rubyjean

Oregon coast is way more friendly, No Gestapo here........

Except for Brookings, where the CG boards every boat and can be quite intimidating.

Northern California is exactly the opposite of Southern California. Try SF Bay and its tributaries some time. Very friendly.

[xymotic]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Yes, and how onerous that one of them is that you are expected to pay for the services you use in a timely manner. The unmitigated gall!

I am quite sure that you would have made good on your obligation and come back and paid the balance of your debt. Or not. Either way, how the hell is the marina supposed to know what your intentions were? You are a transient, on your way to parts unknown. I wonder how many times the harbor has been burned by other sailors who conveniently "forgot" to pay their bill by the agreed-upon date, and then simply sailed away, never to been seen again? Yes, threatening to impound your boat may have seemed a tad draconian. But once you are gone, their options for collecting from you probably essentially vanish. Of course they're going to enforce the slip rental agreement and it is absolutely unreasonable to expect otherwise.

'you have two hours or we're impounding the boat' is completely unnecessary. As is in fact the lack of ability to take a credit card.

I once got a ticket passing through norcal. I asked cop how to pay it and he said I had to wait for notice in the mail. three months later, I followed up and called the court, they told me to be patient, & that I could not pay it til notice was issued.

EIGHT months after I got the ticket, I got a letter (forwarded because I'd moved in the meantime) on a friday evening that said I had until the following monday to pay the ticket. So rather than driving 450 miles, on Monday I called them. Yep, they wait eight months to send a letter and then give you 10 days from the date they mail it to pay! awesome


they could not take a credit card over the phone. cash or check, in person only or a certified check by mail!
they would not reschedule the court date, and said that a warrant would be issued if I didn't show up to court and they'd "sent me a courtesy notice"

I overnighted them a certified check and a NASTY, NASTY letter the next day. to this day I've never heard anything, I probably have a $2,000 failure to appear warrant in Susanville now.

I will also add that I recently got a tax bill from California for a boat purchased and residing in washington state. Again, it has a hailing port in ca.

CA is also the only place I've ever been expected to pay a property tax bill on rental property that I didn't own. And to add salt in the wound it was a complete surprise, and again, they were pretty damned demanding threatening collections almost immediately.

---

And I will say it's not entirely just CA. I got another ticket in WA a while ago, and just completely forgot to pay it. but I gave the cop my address in Oregon and my adress is correct at oregon DMV.

then I get pulled over and cited for driving on suspended license. I call Oregon DMV, and they say nope... my lic. is active with no holds on it.

So I go to court, and tell the judge this.

found guilty, because the WA DOL suspended my driving 'privilege' in WA and they sent notice to the address they last had on file when I had a WA DL in 2007.

$750 to the state treasury, thank you very much. And found guilty of the original ticket because I didn't respond in 10 days or appeal it in 15 days. plus $70 to a collection agency and $70 to WA DMV to clear a hold on a WA license I haven't had for five years. And!!!! it'll cost me ANOTHER $70 if I ever want to reinstate a lic in WA. (fat f*ckin chance!)

So a word to the wise, if you move, apparently you are now expected to notify the DMV in every state you've *ever* lived in.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Yes, and how onerous that one of them is that you are expected to pay for the services you use in a timely manner. The unmitigated gall!

I am quite sure that you would have made good on your obligation and come back and paid the balance of your debt. Or not. Either way, how the hell is the marina supposed to know what your intentions were? You are a transient, on your way to parts unknown. I wonder how many times the harbor has been burned by other sailors who conveniently "forgot" to pay their bill by the agreed-upon date, and then simply sailed away, never to been seen again? Yes, threatening to impound your boat may have seemed a tad draconian. But once you are gone, their options for collecting from you probably essentially vanish. Of course they're going to enforce the slip rental agreement and it is absolutely unreasonable to expect otherwise.

Yep, just checked, Diver Dan here is from Cal! Fits right in!

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by sailpower

His boat was still there. They were visiting friends by car and were returning to the boat later in the day but that wasn't good enough.

At least that's the way I read it.

That's the way I read it as well. But taking the harbor/sherriff's point of view, what is to stop the boat owner from coming and taking the boat away without paying the bill? Is the marina supposed to take everybody with a sob story about why they can't pay on time at their word? Are they supposed to post a guard on the dock 24/7 to collect payment when the owner finally decides to show up?

You don't get to occupy a hotel room for days on end without paying, despite your phoned-in promises to come to the desk and make good on the bill. How is this any different?

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

That's the way I read it as well. But taking the harbor/sherriff's point of view, what is to stop the boat owner from coming and taking the boat away without paying the bill? Is the marina supposed to take everybody with a sob story about why they can't pay on time at their word? Are they supposed to post a guard on the dock 24/7 to collect payment when the owner finally decides to show up?

You don't get to occupy a hotel room for days on end without paying, despite your phoned-in promises to come to the desk and make good on the bill. How is this any different?

When I stay at a hotel I pay when I check out. Is it something different in CA?

[hellosailor]

" we forgot to pay for a couple of extra nights"
Harmony, that sure sounds like you overstayed your rental by at least 48 hours before someone called you on it. Sounds like youhad at least 48 hours of grace from them before they said to pay up now. And yes, even on the east coast 48 hours would be called cutting you a lot of slack.
A sheriff, like every law enforcement officer, has heard every story in the book from every jamoke in the book and as they say, everyone in prison swears they are innocent. Not surprising he doesn't want to hear anything about "why" just "show me the money". If they just asked you to pay the past due, without fine, penalty, or grabbing the boat? I'd say they weren't unreasonable at all. Folks have done far worse.
You're not in the outcountry, things tend to be a bit more formal in Civilization.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

That's the way I read it as well. But taking the harbor/sherriff's point of view, what is to stop the boat owner from coming and taking the boat away without paying the bill? Is the marina supposed to take everybody with a sob story about why they can't pay on time at their word? Are they supposed to post a guard on the dock 24/7 to collect payment when the owner finally decides to show up?

You don't get to occupy a hotel room for days on end without paying, despite your phoned-in promises to come to the desk and make good on the bill. How is this any different?

You need to get out more. You pay when you leave.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by sailpower

When I stay at a hotel I pay when I check out. Is it something different in CA?

When you stay at a hotel, you tell the desk that you want the room for 7 nights. You don't then stay in the room for 9 nights without saying anything to anyone and not expect ramifications.

Look, here's the bottom line- the OP signed a slip rental agreement and and then got upset when she was expected to abide by it. If she didn't want to risk having her boat impounded, she shouldn't have occupied the slip for longer than she paid for.

[WebWench]

sail power, hotels commonly ask for a credit card when you check in.....they may not charge you till you check out but....they have your number.
My guess is that the Marinas in Calif. are probably pretty crowded with many boats coming and going...they probably have set policies because they have been burned before....so you probably have to cut them some slack. They however should have been able to take your credit card by phone....most businesses are able to do that for their customers.

[senormechanico]

I've gotta agree with fstbttms.
In a full marina, that slip may have been promised to another boat for the extra two days.

[Kenomac]

We anchored and stayed in Newport Beach on many occasions on our Hunter 450 without any problems with the local authorities. Never boarded, nothing. The restaurants in the harbor were fantastic regarding allowing us to tie up at their private docks while dining.

That said, Newport Beach and Dana Point have had many problems over the years with folks living on their boats, occupying the free anchorages and not paying for county services. In many cases, the local residents end up helplessly looking at these floating eyesores from their multi-million dollar mansions. I can understand why the locals prefer to see the liveaboards keep on moving. In many cases, the problem boaters just move down the coast to the next marina to become a problem in that community, so I'm sure there's some networking within the Orange County Sheriff's dept.

We always paid and never overstayed, followed the rules... no issues with the Harbor Patrol.

I'm not implying that the OP or some of the other posters are problem liveaboards, but you have to also look at this issue from the local authority's point of view and also as to how the boater visually presents themselves to the harbormaster. Eg: A relatively small sailboat of 40 year old vintage with the deck totally littered with personal belongings, laundry, bikes, rusty anchor & chain lying on the deck etc. Some boaters just mess things up for the rest of us.

Now that we're in Spain, if I don't pay my bill in one marina, you can bet that I should expect big problems the next time I pull into another Spanish marina. You need to pay your bills... do it and you won't receive phone calls from the harbormaster.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I'm not implying that the OP or some of the other posters are problem liveaboards, but you have to also look at this issue from the local authority's point of view and also as to how the boater visually presents themselves to the harbormaster. Eg: A relatively small sailboat of 40 year old vintage with the deck totally littered with personal belongings, laundry, bikes, rusty anchor & chain lying on the deck etc. Some boaters just mess things up for the rest of us.

I've got news for you- someone having a nice boat doesn't make them an honorable person. I've been stiffed by the owners of $500,000 boats every bit as often as I've been stiffed by the owners of $5,000 boats.

[hellosailor]

"You need to get out more. You pay when you leave. "
That's true, but the hotels--all of them-- "pre-authorize" your credit card and lock up the expected portion of your bill when you first register. Register for three nights, and they'll pre-authorize that much and it goes off your credit line, so they can put through the charge if you abscond. Stick around longer, and they'll ask for you to bring your credit card back to the front desk.
People who get credit and debit cards mixed up at the gasoline pump will find a similar problem, when you swipe the card to turn on the pump, it pre-authorizes a larger charge and you may find you can't get to your money until the final amount has settled and cleared. Don't select "credit" if you're using "debit".

[xymotic]

Newport beach is the weirdest of the weird though. First of all, it's $5 a night for a mooring. So let's get a little perspective, it's not like they were running out on a $400 bill.

Second, the sheriff's office got them on the phone. So being all hard-assed at that point is just kindy dicky.

Third, they do have bizzare rules, my recollection is that you had to go in to their office every day between 12 and 2 to pay for that day. They would not take a payment for multiple days in advance or at the end. And it had to be *ME* not my wife or anyone else. They expect you to go in, in person, every day.

And lastly, the facilities are atrocious. Not really sure of the relevance but it needed to be said