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Old 12-12-2012, 13:57   #136
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Well let me tell ya why Connie and I will skip Dana Point if we EVER sail the west coast again ! We stopped there as we said before in this thread, to top off our fresh veggies and such and top off the fuel tanks, for our sail to the Panama Canal. We paid for a slip for 2 days, in cash, recieved a recipt, and rented a car and went to shop! 3 hours later we returned to find our boat gone from the slip we were given!! We went to ask WTH was going on !! The Ass Hole behind the desk said they towed it to impound for non payment!! when shown the recite, he said " woops I gess I messed up ! I did not see it in the files!" Ok I said wheres the boat? and he returned, as soon as ya pay the tow bill they will return it!! No problem just come up with 450 bucks and it's all taken care of !! O yea thats what I did all right !! took me 5 days to get it taken care of !! and to top it off they wanted the additional 3 days dockage !! I still owe them for that !! thats why I wont go there again!! Cus with interest I probley owe them 5000 bucks by now !!LOL
Similar to my experience on land... I know we love regulations here in Canada, but California took it to a new level. Two run ins with nasty bureaucrats and I'd had it. Never mind the driving abilities of the residents... ugh.
3 times on the ride between Sacramento and SF were the closest calls from idiot drivers doing insane and dangerous things towards a motorcycle in 15, 000 km of riding...

I had one verydecent experience, the folks at the agricultural inspection stations(also only in California did I see that thought i was crossing into a new country) were wonderful, helpful and friendly.

Arizona on the other hand, I stopped off the side of the road because my hands were freezing. Arizona cop stopped 5 minutes later. At first very serious towards me, he responded to politeness and civility with the same. Even gave me advice on the best route. Once established I was reasonable. California it felt like you're only not in trouble because we haven't found anything, but we know your guilty of something.
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Old 12-12-2012, 13:58   #137
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Re: So many rules in So Cal!

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People keep mistaking privileges for rights. And I eagerly await those same people to tell me how "indoctrinated" I am. What a crock.
big

A lot of people scream about lost privileges because for some reason they don't feel it is "fair" that they have to follow the rules like everyone else! They do this all they time and when thet get called on it, they cry foul.
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Old 12-12-2012, 14:06   #138
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Re: So many rules in So Cal!

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Heh. Don't let the door hit you on the way out...
I have wanted to say this about a dozen times in this thread.
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Old 12-12-2012, 14:33   #139
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Re: So many rules in So Cal!

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I may be biased, because I am a humble civil servant...
JRM, you said it all right there. Do you really think all the people bitching about high-handed bureaucrats in California are the low-life scofflaws you describe? Couldn't possibly be. So if not, perhaps you ought to consider why this thread has such resonance. The stuff you describe does happen and its not fun for the harbor patrol guy, but its his job, he gets paid well to do it and it doesn't justify him acting like an ******* to everyone else.
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Old 12-12-2012, 14:36   #140
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Re: So many rules in So Cal!

Excellent write up JRM. Agree 100%.
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Old 12-12-2012, 15:59   #141
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JRM, you said it all right there. Do you really think all the people bitching about high-handed bureaucrats in California are the low-life scofflaws you describe? Couldn't possibly be. So if not, perhaps you ought to consider why this thread has such resonance. The stuff you describe does happen and its not fun for the harbor patrol guy, but its his job, he gets paid well to do it and it doesn't justify him acting like an ******* to everyone else.
No. I think those people have an over-righteous opinion of themselves and their actions. It's simple, no one likes to be wrong, and no-one likes to get caught. It's embarrassing. So it must be someone else's fault.

And that harbor patrol officer most likely didn't start off the encounter in ass-hole mode. Most likely, he was professional. But most people tend to equate "That guy didn't do exactly what I wanted" with "That guy treated me badly." Here's an example. When patroling the beach, I make anyone digging a hole deeper than thigh deep fill it in. I'm polite, but firm. They generally call me names like ass-hole and fascist. And that's fine. What they don't realize is that we've had two kids die from hole collapses within a mile of that spot, the last one I rode the stokes doing CPR on all the way across the beach and parking lot. They just think I'm ruining their fun because I can. They see a good time, I see another pale dead kid covered in sand, and the douchebag attorney his family hired that wants to find fault with every last action because they would never admit that their son died because of his own actions. Tell me again how stupid the rules seem to you? There's never a problem till there's a problem.

Are there bad apples? Yes. Just look in the DMV. But even a simple sniff test will tell you that "forgetting" to pay a place you have to pay every day in person is BS. Or tying up to anything you didn't drop off the bow in Southern California without paying. Sniff, sniff. Yep. Bullshit.

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Old 12-12-2012, 16:16   #142
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Re: So many rules in So Cal!

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Originally Posted by JRM View Post
Heh. Don't let the door hit you on the way out...

I may be biased, because I am a humble civil servant, and this has been very entertaining so far. I love the cries of "where's the common sense" on the part of the authorities, in reference to someone who tied up a mooring and left his boat. Hello? Common sense? I'd love to find anywhere in Southern California where moorings are free. Be honest, you risked not paying the meter and got a ticket. Now you're pissed about it. Same with the OP.

Rather than whine about the Harbor Patrol officers, why not go spend a day riding out with them. See the other side for a change. Watch how much time they waste dealing with the derelicts, sorry "free men" and their roach motels , sorry "boats."

Rules exist to try and curb abuses. The rules he convoluted because the abusers keep cooking up creative ways to circumvent them. If everyone was as upright as they think of themselves as being, we wouldn't need them. Rules that are obviously around to make something difficult must exist because the authority doesn't want to deal with it.

People keep mistaking privileges for rights. And I eagerly await those same people to tell me how "indoctrinated" I am. What a crock.

Imagine you're the harbor patrol. You're on your way back to station from a six hour ordeal because Joe Dirt pumped his sewage and oil filled bilge out next to the launch ramp again. Fish and Game takes a dim view of oil in the water, so you've just boomed and skimmed it for the third time in a month. As you go by, you see somebody tied up to a water taxi mooring again. You swing by to ask him to move. You knock and yell, but no answer, he's left his boat unattended. Third time this week. Well, the water taxi needs that, so you take the boat in tow back to station with you and secure it to the muni dock to await the owner. Who shows up super pissed that his boat got towed for "no reason", because he is obviously the most important person on earth and is entitled to tie up wherever he wants without contacting anyone first. And just think, if he would have shown even an ounce of remorse or even mutual respect, you would have let him go with a warning to avoid doing all the paperwork.

So if you would like me to assume the best about the OP, is it unreasonable for me to ask that you give the officer the same? I'm guessing not, because everyone hates the authorities till they need them...

JRM

-- this is actually the fourth post I've done on this topic since it started. I deleted the others prior to posting. I probably should do so again, but I just can't help myself sometimes...
You're a humble civil servant...really? Your slanted slander towards people who makes mistakes either willingly or accidentally somehow needs to be handled with heavy handedness. Sorry...not seeing your humility here. Perhaps people who take on jobs as civil servants should serve the public in a way of understanding and kindness. If they can't ten perhaps it's not a good match of a job for them and they shouldn't let the door hit them in the arse on the way out.
It's been said a few times that only a few bad apples ruin it for everyone. that is true for cruisers and law enforcement. Each will be judged by it's worst action. Who is saying they hate authority. Posts here are just asking for civility. Of course we need law enforcement in our society but not totalitarianism.

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No. I think those people have an over-righteous opinion of themselves and their actions.

JRM
I think this might be true for cruisers and Law enforcement.
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Old 12-12-2012, 16:32   #143
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Well folks , if that's an example of a US humble civil servant, well the place is virtually beyond redemption. Turn the arms shipments around from Syria, you need them at home. !!!

People make mistakes, people forget things. People goof. The fact that as a civil servant you meet the occasional idiot does not allow you the right to treat everyone as one. There should be the presumption of decency. I'm sure in far more crowded waters then the US I've seen far more civil behaviour. Also you're being paid to be nice to the taxpayers. ( remember whose paying the piper )

What's that one about " first up against the wall when the revolution comes...."

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Old 12-12-2012, 17:24   #144
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Re: So many rules in So Cal!

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Originally Posted by JRM View Post
Heh. Don't let the door hit you on the way out...

I may be biased, because I am a humble civil servant, and this has been very entertaining so far. I love the cries of "where's the common sense" on the part of the authorities, in reference to someone who tied up a mooring and left his boat. Hello? Common sense? I'd love to find anywhere in Southern California where moorings are free. Be honest, you risked not paying the meter and got a ticket. Now you're pissed about it. Same with the OP.

Rather than whine about the Harbor Patrol officers, why not go spend a day riding out with them. See the other side for a change. Watch how much time they waste dealing with the derelicts, sorry "free men" and their roach motels , sorry "boats."

Rules exist to try and curb abuses. The rules he convoluted because the abusers keep cooking up creative ways to circumvent them. If everyone was as upright as they think of themselves as being, we wouldn't need them. Rules that are obviously around to make something difficult must exist because the authority doesn't want to deal with it.

People keep mistaking privileges for rights. And I eagerly await those same people to tell me how "indoctrinated" I am. What a crock.

Imagine you're the harbor patrol. You're on your way back to station from a six hour ordeal because Joe Dirt pumped his sewage and oil filled bilge out next to the launch ramp again. Fish and Game takes a dim view of oil in the water, so you've just boomed and skimmed it for the third time in a month. As you go by, you see somebody tied up to a water taxi mooring again. You swing by to ask him to move. You knock and yell, but no answer, he's left his boat unattended. Third time this week. Well, the water taxi needs that, so you take the boat in tow back to station with you and secure it to the muni dock to await the owner. Who shows up super pissed that his boat got towed for "no reason", because he is obviously the most important person on earth and is entitled to tie up wherever he wants without contacting anyone first. And just think, if he would have shown even an ounce of remorse or even mutual respect, you would have let him go with a warning to avoid doing all the paperwork.

So if you would like me to assume the best about the OP, is it unreasonable for me to ask that you give the officer the same? I'm guessing not, because everyone hates the authorities till they need them...

JRM

-- this is actually the fourth post I've done on this topic since it started. I deleted the others prior to posting. I probably should do so again, but I just can't help myself sometimes...
I did very much enjoy our stay in Santa Barbara, alway's paid in advance and was helped out by the harbor patrol when my motor broke down while entering the port. You ought to check out the outside anchorage though. two boats where cooking meth each week, really stunk. I reported it to the office, but never seen a boat patrol out there.. Beautiful place there.
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Old 12-12-2012, 18:46   #145
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Re: So many rules in So Cal!

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You're a humble civil servant...really? Your slanted slander towards people who makes mistakes either willingly or accidentally somehow needs to be handled with heavy handedness.
Yep. A willing mistake isn't a mistake. And if I do make a mistake, I'm willing to accept the consequences. It's called "personal responsibility."

And who said anything about heavy handedness? You're predisposition to hating authority automatically assumes that any action, justified or not, is heavy handed. The people there are just doing their job. It's like yelling at the parking officer for writing a parking ticket. Do you think parking tickets are heavy handed? (that's a serious question, not rhetoric.) If someone isn't parked illegally, they can't get a ticket.

(Sidebar that really is an example of heavy handed abuse: The local University here regularly moves the parking lot assignments around without adequate signage. What was a valid guest permit spot one month might not be the next. They totally do it to up the ticket count. There is absolutely no excuse for it. But I still wouldn't yell at the parking officer, he's just doing his job. Instead, I refuse to go there in my car.)

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Sorry...not seeing your humility here. Perhaps people who take on jobs as civil servants should serve the public in a way of understanding and kindness. If they can't ten perhaps it's not a good match of a job for them and they shouldn't let the door hit them in the arse on the way out.
Heh. You assume too much.

Not that it matters, but I regularly get commended for professionalism and understanding. It's kind of my stock in trade. Now, I freely admit that behind closed doors I'll talk mad garbage, but in dealing with my customers they get my best, every time. I recently had a co-worker come up privately and thank me for cleaning the feces off a power-chair of a man who fell trying to get to the bathroom. He wanted to know why, even though it wasn't my problem, that I would do that. My response is simple: I treat all my customers the way I expect someone to treat my grandparents/parents/wife/child. I gave up a much higher paying job in part because I want to help people. Did you assume I only did this because I lacked the ability to find anything better? No shame in that. Lots of people make that mistake. . Heck, my mother-in-law still thinks I'm an idiot. You and she would probably get along famously...

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It's been said a few times that only a few bad apples ruin it for everyone. that is true for cruisers and law enforcement. Each will be judged by it's worst action. Who is saying they hate authority. Posts here are just asking for civility. Of course we need law enforcement in our society but not totalitarianism.

I think this might be true for cruisers and Law enforcement.
True. But I'm not in law enforcement. Nor am I a Harbor Patrol officer. I don't even work in Santa Barbara (I just live there and commute south for work). I do work very closely with LEO's, but I could never do their job. I really would end up a flame-out. I just asked that as someone who regularly serves the public, you give some fellow public servants the same benefit that you're demanding for others.

Be honest. Take a step back. OK, so the "sniff test" has a negative connotation for you. Fine. Apply the "reasonable person" test (assume competent boating knowledge). Would a reasonable person in southern California assume they could tie up to a random mooring for free? Would a reasonable person assume they could overstay two full days without raising the ire of the OCSO? I think, if we took a poll, the answer would be clear.

JRM
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Old 12-12-2012, 19:11   #146
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JRM: the point is that there are a lot of folks here complaining about their treatment by California authorities generally. Not all of them have done something wrong. Your calling everyone who disagrees with you names and assuming they are lawbreakers really does prove they have a point. But I am really talking to a wall here - being a part of the problem, I shouldn't expect an open mind from you.
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Old 12-12-2012, 19:16   #147
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Very few people have given examples of indecency on the part of the authorities, most have complained about there being consequences to their own wrong doings with no actual mention of the attitude or actual words of the people they were dealing with. Just because someone doesn't bend the rules to your liking, doesn't mean they are being rude.

Impounding a boat due to error is just idiotic, and I am sorry to hear that it was not dealt with properly. I have had a similar incident with my car and was able to convince them not only to release my car with nothing due on my part, but that they had to pick me up and drive me first to the police station to release it, then to the impound lot.
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Old 12-12-2012, 19:17   #148
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Re: So many rules in So Cal!

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And who said anything about heavy handedness? You're predisposition to hating authority automatically assumes that any action, justified or not, is heavy handed. The people there are just doing their job.
. Heck, my mother-in-law still thinks I'm an idiot. You and she would probably get along famously...
JRM
By heavy handedness was referring to the officer demanding they return in 2 hours or their boat gets towed. But as you have pointed out, that is them doing business as a civil servant.
I have no idea if your Mother-in-law and I would get along but it seems she has good perception...

In closing (because this thread is way too long) I will point out that all these people who point to the problems with S.Cal. have no complaints with B.C., Washington, Oregon or Mexico. Just the few hundred miles of S. Cal. Hmmm...interesting isn't it. Could there actually be a problem?
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Old 12-12-2012, 19:21   #149
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By heavy handedness was referring to the officer demanding they return in 2 hours or their boat gets towed. But as you have pointed out, that is them doing business as a civil servant.
I have no idea if your Mother-in-law and I would get along but it seems she has good perception...
In that case, their boat could have been impounded without the notice, so I fail to see how giving them two hours was being heavy handed.
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Old 12-12-2012, 19:23   #150
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Re: So many rules in So Cal!

You know guys..... The "Be Nice" rule is around for a reason....
AND just so nobody can cry "heavy-handed officialdom".... this thread is closed!
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