|
|
02-11-2019, 16:47
|
#1
|
CF Adviser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 10,280
|
Shutting down AIS
Many commercial ships from China. Russia and other nations are "going dark" so as to avoid being tracked delivering goods to sanctioned nations.
This means that AIS can no longer be relied upon for early detection of large ships.....and they are no longer seeing you!
Personally, I think this development will have a positive sobering effect on sloppy lookout practices as a result of yachts and ships relying on AIS, instead of their own eyes and Radar.
I just wonder how IMO will handle this government sanctioned shutdown of AIS?
|
|
|
02-11-2019, 16:56
|
#2
|
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,007
|
Re: Shutting down AIS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic
Many commercial ships from China. Russia and other nations are "going dark" so as to avoid being tracked delivering goods to sanctioned nations.
This means that AIS can no longer be relied upon for early detection of large ships.....and they are no longer seeing you!
Personally, I think this development will have a positive sobering effect on sloppy lookout practices as a result of yachts and ships relying on AIS, instead of their own eyes and Radar.
I just wonder how IMO will handle this government sanctioned shutdown of AIS?
|
The IMO will say, "Bad, bad, Ruskie!" and that will be about it.
On the high seas the US Navy turns off AIS. Not much different to my mind.
|
|
|
02-11-2019, 17:49
|
#3
|
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
|
Re: Shutting down AIS
From what I have seen the USCG also runs without AIS even close to shore.
|
|
|
02-11-2019, 19:06
|
#4
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Back in Mexico cruising the northern part of Sea of Cortez
Boat: 1999 Pacific Seacraft 40
Posts: 716
|
Re: Shutting down AIS
I'm pretty sure the OP and all the respondees here (so far) are prudent enough to run using radar in conjunction with AIS, especially in low visibility situations. They can be/are just symbiotic tools.
I think this issue just points up the need to have a good radar and know what you are looking at.
|
|
|
02-11-2019, 19:48
|
#5
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Back in Montt.
Boat: Westerly Sealord
Posts: 8,181
|
Re: Shutting down AIS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic
Many commercial ships from China. Russia and other nations are "going dark" so as to avoid being tracked delivering goods to sanctioned nations.
This means that AIS can no longer be relied upon for early detection of large ships.....and they are no longer seeing you!
Personally, I think this development will have a positive sobering effect on sloppy lookout practices as a result of yachts and ships relying on AIS, instead of their own eyes and Radar.
I just wonder how IMO will handle this government sanctioned shutdown of AIS?
|
'and they are no longer seeing you!'
Not so... I can 'go dark' if I choose to do so..... but I can stll receive...
And anyone who thinks AIS is some sort of new age god should trying crossing the Golfo de Guayaquil at night.... a sobering experience....
|
|
|
02-11-2019, 20:11
|
#6
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 14,145
|
Re: Shutting down AIS
No biggie to me … I view AIS as a useful tool, but far from necessary. And in my cruising grounds, you’d be a fool to rely on it anyway.
But I am curious about your references Pelagic. How did you learn about this? I’d like to read more.
|
|
|
02-11-2019, 20:57
|
#7
|
CF Adviser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 10,280
|
Re: Shutting down AIS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly
No biggie to me … I view AIS as a useful tool, but far from necessary. And in my cruising grounds, you’d be a fool to rely on it anyway.
But I am curious about your references Pelagic. How did you learn about this? I’d like to read more.
|
Lots of references out there Mike
Here's one
https://www.maritime-executive.com/a...ankers-go-dark
|
|
|
03-11-2019, 05:01
|
#8
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 14,145
|
Re: Shutting down AIS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic
|
Thanks. Interesting read indeed. In my quick search I found articles and references to fishing fleets routinely doing the same.
Odd though in the case of Iranian oil shipments. Given then high priority the USA seems to place on strangling the Iranian economy, you’d think it would be easy for them to track these shipments via satellite observations. I doubt they need AIS to monitor these tankers.
|
|
|
03-11-2019, 11:06
|
#9
|
CF Adviser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 10,280
|
Re: Shutting down AIS
The main reason I brought this up is that I can see a growing number of justifications for turning AIS off.
...Some will cite piracy or security concerns
....Others political concerns about their identity.
...Many (including me) , just don't like the Big Brother aspects of AIS
Many cruisers I feel over rely on AIS to warn them of other traffic.
That, I believe, is an accident waiting to happen
|
|
|
03-11-2019, 11:48
|
#10
|
Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,525
|
Re: Shutting down AIS
I agree this is a an unfortunate development but it’s a tiny number of ships in areas that people on this board rarely, if ever, go. If one of these sanction avoiding ships ever approached US or European ports they’d be boarded and fined by any passing CG - who still use radar (and always receive AIS)
The bigger problem is the large number of cruisers in radar-transparent fiberglass boats who use news like this to justify still not transmitting AIS themselves. Few even put up a radar reflector anymore!
This makes me depend solely on a weak radar return instead of both AIS and radar to see them. I also don’t have a CPA since Marpa on fiberglass boats is useless in any sort of sea.
I’m tired of the jerks who can afford a $200,000 boat and $100 a night for a slip but won’t spend $500 to transmit AIS.
|
|
|
03-11-2019, 12:10
|
#11
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 14,145
|
Re: Shutting down AIS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic
The main reason I brought this up is that I can see a growing number of justifications for turning AIS off.
...Some will cite piracy or security concerns
....Others political concerns about their identity.
...Many (including me) , just don't like the Big Brother aspects of AIS
Many cruisers I feel over rely on AIS to warn them of other traffic.
That, I believe, is an accident waiting to happen
|
I totally agree P. It’s one of the reasons I’ve never gone to AIS-transmit. I receive only, in part b/c I don’t feel the need, nor do I feel comfortable, broadcasting that level of personal information all the time. It all feels at bit like Facebook … a bit too creepy and open to abuse.
I know… someone’s going to say “then you’re not helping others avoid you.” This is true, but it’s not someone else’s responsibility to avoid me. That’s my job. If you want to transmit AIS data to all and sundry, fill your boots. I don’t need it, and feel no need to do so.
… and on cue enters Carl.
|
|
|
03-11-2019, 12:55
|
#12
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Sozopol
Boat: Riva 48
Posts: 1,382
|
Re: Shutting down AIS
It is overblown. Large ships that do not transmit usually watch very carefully (recent navy mishaps excluded). Small boats usually do not venture at night or in bad weather without AIS transmit. So it is self regulating in a way.
|
|
|
03-11-2019, 16:01
|
#13
|
CF Adviser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 10,280
|
Re: Shutting down AIS
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlF
I agree this is a an unfortunate development but it’s a tiny number of ships in areas that people on this board rarely, if ever, go. If one of these sanction avoiding ships ever approached US or European ports they’d be boarded and fined by any passing CG - who still use radar (and always receive AIS)
The bigger problem is the large number of cruisers in radar-transparent fiberglass boats who use news like this to justify still not transmitting AIS themselves. Few even put up a radar reflector anymore!
This makes me depend solely on a weak radar return instead of both AIS and radar to see them. I also don’t have a CPA since Marpa on fiberglass boats is useless in any sort of sea.
I’m tired of the jerks who can afford a $200,000 boat and $100 a night for a slip but won’t spend $500 to transmit AIS.
|
Hi Carl
I have AIS but would shut it off in S China Sea, Borneo and Indonesia. Turning it on if Radar indicates a CPA within 2nm
Not being a jerk, just cautious about being tracked.
As others pointed out, fishing fleets, patrol craft have the same concerns and are turning their AIS off.
So apart from being more vigilant, I think this issue will become political in Territorial Waters.
Already its mandatory for Foreign Yachts to transmit AIS in Thailand NOT Locals
(I think maybe the same in Indonesia)
What if that mindset becomes universal.....ALL FOREIGN REGISTERED VESSELS MUST TRANSMIT AIS??
Exemptions for local craft, so that they can be selective about being tracked.
It then becomes a 'Freedom of Navigation' thing to me and same as Mike,..... I don't like people to know where I am
|
|
|
03-11-2019, 16:18
|
#14
|
Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Between Caribbean and Canada
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 8,508
|
Re: Shutting down AIS
I’m not convinced. My AIS does not have a “dark” mode so it’s on or off.
The only time I would want to not transmit AIS is if there is suspicion of there being “bad guys” around. And the likely good they will be transmitting AIS is about zero.
While it is my responsibility to avoid collisions I know I’m only human and make mistakes, err. So having a second pair of eyes helps, cuts risk by half.
And for sure there are lots of boats without AIS. And because of that it does nothing to reduce your requirement for a good lookout. I am more and more running my radar, even in fair visibility. It too is far from perfect, but better than not having it. It’s a trade off against power usage.
Also it’s in my nature to not worry too much about people knowing my business, I’m a private person for sure, but take fewer than normal precautions to maintain my privacy. That may bite me some day. But it’s just sorta who I’m am, kinda quick to say “eff off.”
|
|
|
03-11-2019, 16:45
|
#15
|
CF Adviser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 10,280
|
Re: Shutting down AIS
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer
I’m not convinced. My AIS does not have a “dark” mode so it’s on or off.
Also it’s in my nature to not worry too much about people knowing my business, I’m a private person for sure, but take fewer than normal precautions to maintain my privacy. That may bite me some day. But it’s just sorta who I’m am, kinda quick to say “eff off.”
|
Same here, my AIS is either on or off.
SE Asia is an area where personal security is a normal part of life in certain areas.
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Rate This Thread |
Linear Mode
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Advertise Here
Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Vendor Spotlight |
|
|
|
|