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Old 10-01-2015, 07:03   #1
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Shengen Question IV

I am very new to sailing. In fact only 10 months. I am an Australian and bought a boat in the south of France in March 2014. I have been sailing the French Med. since oblivious to any visa requirements, only aware that I must leave the EU after 18 months to avoid paying VAT.

I recently flew to London and return via Nice. No passport issues. No one even checked my PP from memory.

I will however be sailing onto Italy and beyond in a few months time. Should I be obtaining any visas to anyone's knowledge?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 10-01-2015, 07:21   #2
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Re: Shengen Question IV

First thing you need to understand is what is your boat's VAT status. If the purchase-sale transaction took place inside the EU and the boat was VAT-paid when you bought it, then likely it is still considered VAT paid, and you do not need to worry about taking the boat out of the EU.

Second and completely separate question is your personal immigration status.

The Schengen Zone generally allows non EU citizens from visa waiver countries (U.S., Australia, Canada, etc.) to spend 90 days out of any 180 day period in the Schengen zone. The clock cannot be reset by just leaving for a day, because they count the 90 days on a rolling basis. It is difficult to obtain a visa to get you around this -- the Schengen system does not really have a suitable visa for this. There is a new Touring Visa which is being developed which would allow one to stay in Schengen for up to a year so long as you don't stay in any one Schengen country for more than 90 days, but AFAIK it has not yet been implemented.

Lastly, some countries like France and Sweden still honor old bilateral agreements with Australia which allow Aussies to stay longer than the Schengen periods in those particular countries. I don't know whether there is any such agreement with Italy.

But in general, you will want to plan your trip so that you are out of Schengen enough not to fall afoul of the limits. It probably means making a beeline across the Med to Tunisia or East to Croatia, Cyprus, Turkey, etc.
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Old 10-01-2015, 07:33   #3
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Re: Shengen Question IV

As an Australian what was your conditions of entry into the EU?
The EU, like Australia has conditions of entry, breaching these conditions may leads to some complication.
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Old 10-01-2015, 07:41   #4
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Re: Shengen Question IV

Dockheads,

He is not planning, he's done!

And he's over.

What to do NOW?

Turn yourself in? Escape to Turkey?
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Old 10-01-2015, 11:37   #5
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Re: Shengen Question IV

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Originally Posted by LordByron View Post
I am very new to sailing. In fact only 10 months. I am an Australian and bought a boat in the south of France in March 2014. I have been sailing the French Med. since oblivious to any visa requirements, only aware that I must leave the EU after 18 months to avoid paying VAT.



I recently flew to London and return via Nice. No passport issues. No one even checked my PP from memory.



I will however be sailing onto Italy and beyond in a few months time. Should I be obtaining any visas to anyone's knowledge?



Thanks in advance.

This is this ops second thread.

The fact is sir , you have overstayed. At this stage you need to proceed carefully. You can assume that you may get into trouble. Or you may be lucky

Mind you I question the sanity of someone that just arrives for a reasonable stay and has no idea about immigration rules. What did U think was supposed to happen.

The risk you run is in another Schengen country your overstay may be detected , you can then be ejected with a no return stamped into your passport. That might screw things up.

The best might be that the Italian official will stamp a new Schengen start date , at least now you have 90 days legitimacy. ( in the total Schengen area )

The worst is you face a long sea journey !
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Old 10-01-2015, 12:58   #6
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Re: Shengen Question IV

Yes this is a second posting of the same question. I was asked by Dockhead to post here. Sorry.

And guess what. Out of the blue today I was paid a visit by the Monaco marine police and asked to complete a form out. On the back of the form it was labelled Shengen details. You can imagine my grief when I saw this having read posts from this forum.

I completed the form with my personal details as well as the boat's etc. and left the back of the form blank. After about ten minutes whilst the officer studied the details and made a phone call to I don't know where he asked how long I was intending staying.

I said two months. He said ok, shook my hand and welcomed me, then left.

I dared not ask him any Shengen related questions but this latest episode has left me more confused than ever.

Where and when is it applicable? Does being Australian make me exempt from this Shengen visa issue?

If not, where do you apply for a Shengen visa? There is no Australian consular representation in Monaco. Do I need to go to the Paris embassy?

And thank you Goboatingnow for questioning my sanity. I wish I had your good common sense. I take my hat off to you.
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Old 10-01-2015, 13:24   #7
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Re: Shengen Question IV

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Originally Posted by LordByron View Post
Yes this is a second posting of the same question. I was asked by Dockhead to post here. Sorry.

And guess what. Out of the blue today I was paid a visit by the Monaco marine police and asked to complete a form out. On the back of the form it was labelled Shengen details. You can imagine my grief when I saw this having read posts from this forum.

I completed the form with my personal details as well as the boat's etc. and left the back of the form blank. After about ten minutes whilst the officer studied the details and made a phone call to I don't know where he asked how long I was intending staying.

I said two months. He said ok, shook my hand and welcomed me, then left.

I dared not ask him any Shengen related questions but this latest episode has left me more confused than ever.

Where and when is it applicable? Does being Australian make me exempt from this Shengen visa issue?

If not, where do you apply for a Shengen visa? There is no Australian consular representation in Monaco. Do I need to go to the Paris embassy?

And thank you Goboatingnow for questioning my sanity. I wish I had your good common sense. I take my hat off to you.
France is one of the countries with bilateral agreements with the US and Australia, so you may not actually be in violation of French law (and Monaco has common immigration with France AFAIK).

If Italy has the same thing, then you might not have any problems. But you will have to do the research yourself.

If Italy does NOT have a bilateral agreement in place with Australia, then you risk pretty serious problems by going there after Monaco. The best way to deal with it would be to call the consular section of the Italian embassy in France and just ask them.
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Old 10-01-2015, 13:28   #8
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Re: Shengen Question IV

Australia doesn't have a special agreement with France. NZ has an agreement and kiwis can stay 6 months. For Aussies it's the normal 90 in, 90 out
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Old 10-01-2015, 14:04   #9
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Re: Shengen Question IV

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Australia doesn't have a special agreement with France. NZ has an agreement and kiwis can stay 6 months. For Aussies it's the normal 90 in, 90 out
Thanks for the correction!

Underlines the point that you will have to do your own research!

Americans do have a special treaty in France.
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Old 10-01-2015, 14:09   #10
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Re: Shengen Question IV

I was intending to sail onto Italy in the next few months. There's an Italian embassy here in Monaco. Guess where I will be visiting Monday morning.

Worse case scenario is I'll just keep sailing the French Med. :-)

Until they throw me in jail that is.
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Old 10-01-2015, 16:19   #11
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Re: Shengen Question IV

Keep us posted please.
I'm an Aussie and heading to The UK in a few weeks to buy a boat and wander around Europe.
Given that there seems to be a disconnect between the rules and their enforcement, personal experience stories are very useful.
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Old 10-01-2015, 17:30   #12
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Re: Shengen Question IV

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Originally Posted by LordByron View Post
I was intending to sail onto Italy in the next few months. There's an Italian embassy here in Monaco. Guess where I will be visiting Monday morning.

Worse case scenario is I'll just keep sailing the French Med. :-)

Until they throw me in jail that is.

Just to clarify m for your sanity , don't you know. There is no Schengen visa for Australians, in that you dont have to pre apply.. The visa is effectively the stamp you get when you first arrive. You must still abide by all the immigration rules . In that regard it's indent identical to the us visa waiver scheme

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Old 11-01-2015, 06:12   #13
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Re: Shengen Question IV

I'm an Aussie with a boat in Greece. Have sailed the Med for 5 years , but for 90 days each year. You can't get a Schengen visa, it's automatic for Aussies, but the 90/180 Rule applies in all 26 Schengen signatory countries It's just that the French are not so officious. Come to Greece and watch the customs guy counting the days of your stayand you will think differently. Even there most of the customs guys are considerate. . The only way around it is to get Eu citizenship and that is not so easy. Greece will grant you citizenship if you buy a house worth more than 375,000 euros. They also have some deal for retired oldies as do some other countries. As with TI and the 18months rule it's honoured more in the breach than in the observance. I wonder whether these laws were made to manage other people than cruising sailors who drift around spending money and generally paying their way. There are plenty of great little ports in the Ionian islands which depend heavily on the sailing euro.
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Old 11-01-2015, 06:17   #14
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Re: Shengen Question IV

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordByron View Post
I am very new to sailing. In fact only 10 months. I am an Australian and bought a boat in the south of France in March 2014. I have been sailing the French Med. since oblivious to any visa requirements, only aware that I must leave the EU after 18 months to avoid paying VAT.

I recently flew to London and return via Nice. No passport issues. No one even checked my PP from memory.

I will however be sailing onto Italy and beyond in a few months time. Should I be obtaining any visas to anyone's knowledge?

Thanks in advance.
If you bought a French registered boat which was in France and the transaction was carried out in France, then almost certainly the boat is VAT paid.
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Old 11-01-2015, 09:01   #15
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Re: Shengen Question IV

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If you bought a French registered boat which was in France and the transaction was carried out in France, then almost certainly the boat is VAT paid.
I bought a French boat in France and registered it in Oz. I chose NOT to pay VAT with the knowledge that I must leave the EU after 18 months thereabouts.
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