Shengen Question IV

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by dlymn

When a non-EU citizen buys a boat it needs to be registered in the new owner's country. This means that the boat has technically been exported from the originally registered country and the VAT status of the boat becomes irrelevant. If I bring that boat back to Australia, I will have to pay GST on entry. If I sell it back to a EU citizen it is likewise considered an import and VAT needs to be paid. Sometimes a particular customs officer might overlook this but that is just good luck.

(Yes, all of this is off topic from OP -Sorry)

Sorry all wrong. , please search all the EU vat directives and show me where it references flag status.

A boat is exported from the EU when it leaves the customs union of the EU , it's flag status is irrelevant, various reliefs apply which may remove the need to repay vat on re entry

Please stop talking about something you know seemingly know little about

Plus many countries require that the boat be registered. They do not require it to be home registered. I can quite easily own a foreign registered boat, assuming I meet the conditions of that registry.

It wring to extend the restrictive Australian laws to other countries without actually knowing anything or telling somebody like me , a vat registered trader , the rules concerning vat !!!

Dave


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[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by dlymn

When I register my boat, I pay a fee for that. In Australia, that was $1295 for a sailboat, probably more now. I reckon that much of that is sort of a lifetime insurance policy that is used to provide the rescue services for boats. It's true that countries have mutually agreed to cover the cost of sea rescue, but think of the unregistered and uninsured car driver who is in a car crash; that person is liable for all costs. The taxpayer and others who pay insurance will not foot the bill. If your unregistered (read uninsured) boat needs rescue why should those people who have paid their insurance cover the cost of your rescue? When you sail under a foreign flag and yet own the boat, you sail at your own risk. Yes, they will save your life, but cross your fingers after that. Look at those Bulimore, Sunderland and sick baby reports and sense the resentment (who knows what that might become when the taxpayer discovers that you haven't contributed one cent to insuring yourself). Go and live in New Hampshire and send out a mayday. Some bedtime reading
http://www.eccbelgie.be/images/downl...n%20Europe.pdf

I think you are deeply confused by this. There is no insurance element in boat registration fees. A UK flag, if you register on SSR, costs 25 pounds for five years -- five pounds a year. If you get rescued in French waters, the French SAR do not send a bill to the Australian government -- they simply rescue you.

The document you attached confirmed this. According to this, no European countries charge any fees for rescues of life at sea. You might be charged for salvage of your boat (as opposed to your life), but this is not dependent on what flag you have, or whether you have any flag at all.

[chuckr]

Originally Posted by LordByron

Thanks heaps, but I don't have any VAT issues. It's Shengen my query is about. Sorry for any confusion.


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your thread seems to have gotten really sidetracked -- pm us if you want some more thoughts on schengren as we have been living with it for 2 years.

[SimonV]

Originally Posted by dlymn

"Your Australian registration gives your vessel Australia status and all the benefits and protection of the Australian Government."

I think you have made my point quite well,; no registration, no benefits and protection of the Australian government (including international treaties). Yes, I agree that all signatory countries will save your life gratis but i think that negligence might have a price to pay. If it turns out that you have not paid to be a part of a country's protection schemes or carry any other form of insurance, then the matter just might be seen in an entirely different light. Certainly the cost of rescuing your boat will probably not be free. Read the document I attached to previous mail.

Nope. Your document is for mountain rescue.

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[LordByron]

Wow. Talk about off the beaten track.

Can't you guys sort your differences out in the car park? Or DM each other?

Cheers.


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[med]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Sorry all wrong. , please search all the EU vat directives and show me where it references flag status.

A boat is exported from the EU when it leaves the customs union of the EU , it's flag status is irrelevant, various reliefs apply which may remove the need to repay vat on re entry

Please stop talking about something you know seemingly know little about

Plus many countries require that the boat be registered. They do not require it to be home registered. I can quite easily own a foreign registered boat, assuming I meet the conditions of that registry.

It wring to extend the restrictive Australian laws to other countries without actually knowing anything or telling somebody like me , a vat registered trader , the rules concerning vat !!!

Dave


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There is a slight twist in that some countries (for instance France), require you to be resident in that country in order to be able to register a pleasure boat in that country. If you are resident in France, and you buy a pleasure boat in France it will be be VAT paid or you will have to pay VAT on it in order to register it. A French company selling the boat to you will charge you and account for the VAT. As a private French resident everything you ever buy in France has VAT included in the price (including cars, boats and diesel fuel) and the company selling the product has to account for the VAT to the tax authorities (and keep all records for 6 years).

To register your pleasure craft you either have to produce the old French registration certificate, a builders receipt showing the VAT you paid for a new boat (first time registration), or if you imported the boat, the VAT receipt from customs. All along with proof that you are resident.

So, in general, a French registered boat is assumed by the authorities to be VAT paid (and it is unless it has been out of the EU for more than 3 years). Also if you own a French registered boat you will have to pay a yearly tax.

If you are French resident and have a foreign registered boat you have to pay a different yearly tax. But it is exactly the same amount! (You know of course that the origin of the word bureaucracy is French ;-)

I.e. the flag status is sometimes interpreted to mean VAT paid in that country (and for some countries, such as France, it is mostly true).

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by med

There is a slight twist in that some countries (for instance France), require you to be resident in that country in order to be able to register a pleasure boat in that country. If you are resident in France, and you buy a pleasure boat in France it will be be VAT paid or you will have to pay VAT on it in order to register it. A French company selling the boat to you will charge you and account for the VAT. As a private French resident everything you ever buy in France has VAT included in the price (including cars, boats and diesel fuel) and the company selling the product has to account for the VAT to the tax authorities (and keep all records for 6 years).

To register your pleasure craft you either have to produce the old French registration certificate, a builders receipt showing the VAT you paid for a new boat (first time registration), or if you imported the boat, the VAT receipt from customs. All along with proof that you are resident.

So, in general, a French registered boat is assumed by the authorities to be VAT paid (and it is unless it has been out of the EU for more than 3 years). Also if you own a French registered boat you will have to pay a yearly tax.

If you are French resident and have a foreign registered boat you have to pay a different yearly tax. But it is exactly the same amount! (You know of course that the origin of the word bureaucracy is French ;-)


I.e. the flag status is sometimes interpreted to mean VAT paid in that country (and for some countries, such as France, it is mostly true).

Having had a boat on the french registry , I am well aware of their issues. They have a particular fixation on VAT. IN other countries not so much.

Irrespective of flag, the vat status is dependant on whether taxable events have occurred and the Vat implications. They are selling buying , import and export. A boats Vat status cannot be changed merely by its registry status , It can be used as a shorthand and sometimes is but thats different,

There are several ways french residents may own boats that are not VAT registered, There was a discounted lease scheme, boats can be wrapped up in companies etc. All have their own issues.


Also my understanding is that French nationals can like Spanish register in other EU registries like Belgium.

[med]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Also my understanding is that French nationals can like Spanish register in other EU registries like Belgium.

I think anyone can register almost anything in Belgium (subject to writing the necessary cheque).