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Old 19-10-2014, 10:26   #1
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Schengen caution on the North Atlantic circuit

I had an interesting chat with immigration in Horta yesterday as they clear you very time you move the boat in Portuguese waters. 90 days as a tourist was not unusual, but...as a member of the Schengen agreement area your time starts in whatever country you enter in and does not stop until you leave for a non-Schengen country. So they are counting my 90 days form the time I cleared into St Pierre et Miquelon and counting non stop even though I cleared out of St Pierre and spent 15 days at sea in international waters before arriving in the Azores. This should not be a problem for me, but If you are planning to make full use of your 90 days it would be better to clear out from Canada and not St Pierre et Miquelon, which is a part of France, and therefore included in the Schengen area.
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Old 19-10-2014, 12:32   #2
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Re: Schengen caution on the North Atlantic circuit

Yes, thats correct. When clearing out you need to be aware of it. So in Horta you could say your next port is Gibralter which is non-shengan
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Old 19-10-2014, 15:04   #3
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Re: Schengen caution on the North Atlantic circuit

Schengen is only EU countries. Overseas territories aren't part of schengen and have their own visa requirements I.e Martinique.
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Old 19-10-2014, 15:15   #4
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Re: Schengen caution on the North Atlantic circuit

UK also is not Schengen (I believe).

But an important point from the OP is that I would never have guessed that when leaving from St Pierre et Miquelon, they would then count your time at sea crossing the Atlantic, as 'in Schengen'. That seems quite odd and I would not have expected it.

I wonder if you had cleared for 'the high seas' or the UK (eg somewhere not in schengen) rather than for 'the azores' (eg somewhere in Schengen) if that would have stopped the clock.
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Old 19-10-2014, 15:23   #5
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Re: Schengen caution on the North Atlantic circuit

I think he's mistaken about that. The schengen clock starts when you first enter a shenghan country, and as Mark said, it stops for time at sea so make sure you check out if you want the additional days. I've also heard of some customs officials that believe the shenghan clock can be reset and restarted with a new entry. This is incorrect but the information was given to some friends this year by a Spanish customs official after their 90 days expired..
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Old 19-10-2014, 15:48   #6
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Re: Schengen caution on the North Atlantic circuit

I actually thought this visa reqqy is total days per year.No?
Certainly exit clerance/passport stamped exit stops and starts upon next Shengen entry.

Help me out here ????
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Old 19-10-2014, 15:51   #7
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Re: Schengen caution on the North Atlantic circuit

Maybe the problem is officials are as confused as we are and interpret the rules differently.

Seems to be the case in the US.
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Old 19-10-2014, 16:10   #8
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Re: Schengen caution on the North Atlantic circuit

Correct Arthur, but it's 90 days out of 180 allowed, so 3 months in, then you have to stay out for 3 months. Time at sea counts as time out.
I was in Italy a couple of years ago and I heard the Italian Coast guard interrogating an English super yacht that was obviously shenghen dodging..the call went something like this...

Yes sir, how many people on board

10 passengers and 12 crew

Thankyou sir, and your last port

Gibraltar

Gibraltar, but you are in Italy, that's a long way..

Yes sir

But sir, weren't you staying at Portofino last night?

*crickets*

Ahh Er, well, Er, yes we were...

But we weren't really docked...

Well we were tied to the dock...but...
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Old 20-10-2014, 08:10   #9
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Re: Schengen caution on the North Atlantic circuit

St Pierre is part of France and since I have not cleared out of schengen, the clock is still running. This is from Immigration in Horta. I am waiting for immigration in Terciera to get back from lunch, will see what they have to say. Maybe they will stamp my passport in here, apparently the stamp in from Miquelon is a customs and not an immigration stamp. Should'nt be much of an issue for me unless I get delayed unexpectedly as I plan to sail from here to Madeira when the weather settles and then to Morocco which will take me out of shengen territory.
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Old 20-10-2014, 08:14   #10
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Re: Schengen caution on the North Atlantic circuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
Maybe the problem is officials are as confused as we are and interpret the rules differently.

Seems to be the case in the US.
I think that is the root of the problem
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Old 20-10-2014, 10:52   #11
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Re: Schengen caution on the North Atlantic circuit

So I have a question, Is it the boat or the person that violates the 90 day rule. Can I bring my boat into Spain for repairs, tour Russia and come back 4 months later and be OK? Or can I dock in England, spend 4 months laying around Paris and then sail along Spain and Portugal? Also what other countries besides in Africa can one get out of the agreement?
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Old 20-10-2014, 11:00   #12
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Re: Schengen caution on the North Atlantic circuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
So I have a question, Is it the boat or the person that violates the 90 day rule. Can I bring my boat into Spain for repairs, tour Russia and come back 4 months later and be OK? Or can I dock in England, spend 4 months laying around Paris and then sail along Spain and Portugal? Also what other countries besides in Africa can one get out of the agreement?
A visum? The person. The boat can stay in the EU forever. However: Some Frequently Asked Questions about the rules for private boats - European commission
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Old 20-10-2014, 12:03   #13
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Re: Schengen caution on the North Atlantic circuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
So I have a question, Is it the boat or the person that violates the 90 day rule. Can I bring my boat into Spain for repairs, tour Russia and come back 4 months later and be OK? Or can I dock in England, spend 4 months laying around Paris and then sail along Spain and Portugal? Also what other countries besides in Africa can one get out of the agreement?

The person violates the 90 days rule. A non-EU flagged boat can stay up to 18 months or even 24 months under certain circumstances. Other countries, e.g. Turkey, Albania, Montenegro.


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Old 20-10-2014, 12:16   #14
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Re: Schengen caution on the North Atlantic circuit

When we left Horta for Ponta Delgada (sp?) the clock stopped.... When we left for Medeira, they checked us out of Ponta Delgada and checked us back in here, so the time between wasn't counted.

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Old 20-10-2014, 12:40   #15
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Re: Schengen caution on the North Atlantic circuit

St Pierre and Miquelon are French, but French overseas protectorates are not part of Schengen. Your time there doesn't count toward your days.

Azores and Madeira are Portuguese, and Portuguese protectorates are part of Schengen.

Balearic Islands are Spanish and Schengen. Ceuta and Melilla, Spanish cities in Morocco, are Schengen and Moroccan.

The clock starts when you check into the Schengen zone and stops when you check out. Schengen allows any 90 days in a 180 day period. That can be multiple trips that add up to 90 days or 1 trip of 90 days in a 180 day period.

Most of the EU is part of Schengen. Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, and Sweden.
Also non-EU countries Iceland, Norway, Switzerland, Liechtenstein are Schengen.

Ireland and UK, including Gibralter, are Not Schengen.
Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Romania are not yet.
Boznia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Albania, Turkey are Not Schengen.
Macedonia, Kosovo, Serbia are not.
Kaliningrad and Russia are not.
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