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Old 09-07-2007, 17:01   #1
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Sailing without documentation

Hi, I am purchasing a boat in Martinique and would like to move it to Grenada immediately after the possession date. Is it possible to use the bill of sale as registration/documentation until I get my official paperwork? The boat will be a Canadian register vessel once re-registered.
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Old 09-07-2007, 17:51   #2
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Quote:
Is it possible to use the bill of sale as registration/documentation until I get my official paperwork? The boat will be a Canadian register vessel once re-registered.
I would check with each country. You'll need documentation to leave any country as well as enter it. What they each will require is unknown but official documentation from some country may not be enough for all countries. You need to check this through official channels because should you get in a bind over documentation they could take the boat and may throw you in jail. You really can't be hopping island to island without complete documentaton. A bill of sale is just the beginning but not enough. Start with clearing the title upon the sale and that will prove you to be the new owner so you can leave the country with it. Then deal with each country as well as Canada. If you can establish paper issued by Canada before you leave any place then it would be best to do so right away.

Legal advice you get on the Internet is perhaps worth what you paid for it but not always. This is not something to fool with. A poor international title transfer could be your worst nightmare.
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Old 10-07-2007, 11:29   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinm
Hi, I am purchasing a boat in Martinique and would like to move it to Grenada immediately after the possession date. Is it possible to use the bill of sale as registration/documentation until I get my official paperwork? The boat will be a Canadian register vessel once re-registered.
The short answer is I don't know! But I suspect (99%) not.
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Old 10-07-2007, 12:13   #4
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Trust Me! . . .

I love reading your posts, DOJ, I'm just sorry that you redacted the best part of the one above! (" . . . if you can't trust a complete stranger on the internet, who can you trust?")

Your short answer to kevinm says it all, however. And I would just add that a Bill of Sale "proves" only that you paid a certain amount to someone else for the vessel you now say is yours. Who knows if he even owned what he sold you? I think that clear title is only proven by documentation, but I will defer to Paul Blais for a more definitive answer on that.

Appropos to your observation above regarding trust is this from your post to a thread started by Lancerbye in the Off-Topic Forum, "Murphy's Lesser Known Laws:"

"Never trust anyone who says 'Trust Me.' Trust me!"

(You will recognize it, of course, as a slightly edited version of your post on that thread.)

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Old 10-07-2007, 14:14   #5
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Originally Posted by TaoJones
I love reading your posts, DOJ, I'm just sorry that you redacted the best part of the one above! (" . . . if you can't trust a complete stranger on the internet, who can you trust?")

Your short answer to kevinm says it all, however. And I would just add that a Bill of Sale "proves" only that you paid a certain amount to someone else for the vessel you now say is yours. Who knows if he even owned what he sold you? I think that clear title is only proven by documentation, but I will defer to Paul Blais for a more definitive answer on that.

Appropos to your observation above regarding trust is this from your post to a thread started by Lancerbye in the Off-Topic Forum, "Murphy's Lesser Known Laws:"

"Never trust anyone who says 'Trust Me.' Trust me!"


(You will recognize it, of course, as a slightly edited version of your post on that thread.)


TaoJones
TJ

Are you stalking me or something? (if so, hopefully only on this forum!)

I pulled the last post because I realised it contained something a bit wrong (usually I don't worry about minor details like that ) and it was easier to yank than edit, plus it may have given some folk a few ideas........yer know, sometimes I sit down, look at my Bank statements and think to myself, why don't I do all the stuff that I know how to do with a pen...........but am not meant to

Anyway, back to OP - you may want to look at getting the vessel registered somewhere "easy" until you can do the Canadian stuff - or just getting a letter of authority from the Registered Owner (presumably the same as the Seller) - if they are willing to risk you being a drug smuggler
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Old 10-07-2007, 14:45   #6
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"Nevermore" . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey
TJ

Are you stalking me or something? (if so, hopefully only on this forum!)
Like the raven in Poe's poem, I'm perched atop the pallid bust of Pallas just above your chamber door, watching as you compose your posts.

Actually, when you posted your first response to kevinm earlier, I had read it and laughed out loud at your " . . . if you can't trust a complete stranger on the internet, who can you trust" line. I tried to respond, but first had to log in, and by the time I had done that and gone back to hit the "quote" button under your post, your "long-winded" response had vanished, and only your short answer remained.

And when I searched through the Forum for the thread about "Murphy's Lesser Known Laws" to extract the quote about Trust Me that had also hit my funny bone, I was surprised to see you were the poster of that as well.

So, while I've been to Great Britain and Europe, I'm afraid I missed Jersey. Maybe next time . . .

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Old 10-07-2007, 20:21   #7
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What about getting a letter from the previous owner stating that you are delivering the boat from Martinique to Canada. That way each stop you make will just be a part of the delivery. When you get to Canada you can just show your bill of sale to register the boat properly.
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Old 10-07-2007, 21:17   #8
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If you have the previous registration and a bill of sale you can get the boat registered in Canada from a foreign country. It will require a lawyers stamp and signature as a witness to the validity of your papers. It is not hard and will save you a lot of grief.
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Old 11-07-2007, 05:51   #9
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It will require a lawyers stamp and signature as a witness to the validity of your papers.
It's a tad more complcated than that. The process is to release the registration from some other country so it can be changed to another. So yes the process needs to start with a bill of sale notarized with the prior registartion documents(maybe some fees too).

Canada isn't going to release the registration from the other country or settle export issues for you. You have to prove to Canada that you did all the right things plus have all the right papers that proves you did. Then you start what ever paper work and fees they require.

For example a US boat can not be documented to a non US resident so the process in the US is to release the boat from US documentation first since it's a US documented boat until the USCG says it's not. There is a form and a fee for that and it is simple. The problem is the form you fill out also has to have the sellers signature too! In the US you can do it yourself but not in all countries!

At that point you have three issues after you release the registration it already has. Exporting the boat may be a formal step. Not all countries have a process but some do. Then importing the boat to your final destination country. Last is registering the boat. There could be taxes (sometimes expiditing bribes along the way). Each part is not the same. Each part may require paper work that proves you performed the prior steps. You may be able to do it yourself but you may also need an agent.

You don't just want a notorized bill of sale and show up in Canada and expect to sort it out. It needs to be done when you buy the boat as part of the process before you hand over the money! You need to know for sure with paper work that you received a clear title from the local country before you release the money.

You are not be allowed to register the boat in your own name in another country you are not a resident of. Oterwise stealing boats would be a brisk international business. You need a local holding company to do that. Many places have them for a fee.

Foreign brokers have agents that will handle the whole thing including escrow so the money is held until you get your paperwork. This really isn't a do it yourself thing. Without proper title after the sale you are screwed before you leave the dock. Once they have your money the game is over.

When all else fails a note from your mom is also good.
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