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Old 26-01-2011, 15:46   #61
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I think you're all forgetting one small detail:

Quote:
Rule 13


(a)
Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules of Part B, Sections I and II, any vessel overtaking any other vessel shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.


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Old 26-01-2011, 17:33   #62
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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
If they were travelling in opposite directions then there would only be time for one pass across the bow... opposing speeds would have prevented a second encounter...
Exactly

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.... furthermore same direction is the only way the sailboat could come from the port side on that tack... and recross from 'Powers' starbd...
But the OP says:

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Originally Posted by rabend View Post
The vessel under power slows as a 20 foot sailboat tacks from port to starboard directly across its bow. After the small boat passes and is well to starboard, .......
So the sailing boat flips to starboard tack, not port tack and moves to the starboard side of the power boat. It is impossible for a starboard tacking boat to move from port to starboard (Edit: i.e. from left to right from the power boats perspective) if they are both going up wind. It can only happen if they are both travelling down wind and the sailing boat is on starboard gybe.

I think we need clarification from the OP? Unless the situation is clear...and at the moment I can't even determine whether it's a crossing situation or an overtaking situation.... there's not a hope of determining what should have been the correct actions for each boat to take.
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Old 26-01-2011, 17:48   #63
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I interpreted the OP as the sail boat altered course away from the port side of the channel (to them) to starbd to close on opposite side of channel crossing ahead of the 45ftr which slowed to let it pass (sail) safely, he then accelerated and caught it up again resulting in a 'close encounter'...
hence he was the overtaking vessel...
Also I cannot see a sailboat making such wide gybes... especially running down a channel.. so my conclusion could only be that the sailboat was tacking to make the general same heading as the 45ftr...
Why is it impossible to tack up channel into the wind
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Old 26-01-2011, 17:59   #64
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...at the moment I can't even determine whether it's a crossing situation or an overtaking situation.... there's not a hope of determining what should have been the correct actions for each boat to take.
Based on the available evidence it is a crossing situation (tacking onto starboard to cross to the starboard side).

My take is it was an impatient and self-righteous big boat skipper who didn't understand the capabilities and necessities of small boat handling while There's no evidence of a collision so no fault. The skipper obviously has a hard time judging distances as any boat in the entire fairway might be directly ahead.

But we have not heard from the OP since post #1, have we? So perhaps this was merely a most excellent troll. It pretty well separated the sailors from the power boaters in the thread
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Old 26-01-2011, 18:05   #65
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Based on the available evidence it is a crossing situation (tacking onto starboard to cross to the starboard side).
because if the sailboat is on starboard tack and they are both going into the same direction the sailboat would move from right to left and end up on the port side of the power boat. It's imposible to be on starboard tack and move to starboard

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But we have not heard from the OP since post #1, have we? So perhaps this was merely a most excellent troll. It pretty well separated the sailors from the power boaters in the thread
Troll or not....it's fun
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Old 26-01-2011, 18:05   #66
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Great Discussion!

The wind was coming from dead ahead as surmised above. I was in the 45' sailboat under power, and here is the way I see it. I think the 20 footer should have tacked before creating immediate danger by crossing my path in the first place, since I was constrained by the right side of the channel and my 40,000 lb boat does not slow easily. When the 20 footer tacked back the other way, he again created immediate danger in a crossing situation, and my speed had not changed appreciably. On that basis, I believe he made two foolish moves, and Rule 9 seems to support that conclusion in its discussion about "crossing the fairway & impeding". He could have let me pass on either tack with little or no consequesce.

That said, I am responsible for avoiding immediate danger no matter who has the right of way, and a better move on my part would would have been to continue to slow down in anticipation of his second tack. Per the rules I passed just behind his stern with barely enough room to clear the right side of the channel. The other factor is that slowing to the point of steerage loss is not a good idea in a constrained area. My rule is to always give way when necessary since I am never in a hurry. Just my thoughts. Excellent discussion on this. Thanks

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Old 26-01-2011, 18:10   #67
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I interpreted the OP as the sail boat altered course away from the port side of the channel (to them) to starbd to close on opposite side of channel crossing ahead of the 45ftr which slowed to let it pass (sail) safely, he then accelerated and caught it up again resulting in a 'close encounter'...
hence he was the overtaking vessel...
Also I cannot see a sailboat making such wide gybes... especially running down a channel.. so my conclusion could only be that the sailboat was tacking to make the general same heading as the 45ftr...



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Why is it impossible to tack up channel into the wind
It's not, but it is impossible to be on a starboard tack and move to starboard (unless you have a fierce crossing current!! )
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Old 26-01-2011, 18:13   #68
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I also don't think this event took place in US waters.... am I right..??
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Old 26-01-2011, 18:13   #69
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The wind was coming from dead ahead as surmised above.
Bob
which way is the sail boat traveling? to wind also?

Also, who is overtaking who?
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Old 26-01-2011, 18:17   #70
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The 20 footer was in a borderline overtaking position which is 22.5 degrees abaft the beam, although that was hard to call. This did take place in US waters.

Bob
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Old 26-01-2011, 18:23   #71
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Tack

OK - To clarify, the 20 footer was initially on a port tack, and the second time on a starboard tack.

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Old 26-01-2011, 18:52   #72
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A picture paints a thousand words....

is this the situation? If so, I think the sailboat is overtaking and should keep clear. It looks like he didn't twice

In the first incident I think you did exactly the right thing. You can't turn to starboard to avoid because of the shoreline and as a power vessel turning to port is not a good idea. Slowing down is really your only option.

At this point I probably would have let him get away as he's causing situations (something that I'm used to doing here in SE Asia where small boats following Colregs are the exception rather than the norm).

The second incident looks like a repeat of the first, but was probably exasperated by your alterations in speed.

Another thing that might of helped is that if you considered there was a risk of collision (which I assume you did), you could have given him 5 blasts. As a 20ft...shall we say dingy?.... he may not consider a risk of collision exists until he's within one of his boat lengths of you. But this in my experience usually just gets him all uppity....that's why I'd just let him get away.
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Old 26-01-2011, 19:08   #73
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He crossed the bow of power to close the shore and then cut back... only the one manouvere....
and..... if taken in a straight line across the channel the power vessel was the overtaking vessel regardless of sailboats speed as one was tacking... the other moving in a straight line...
But thats my weird logic...
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Old 26-01-2011, 19:16   #74
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ah.... like this you reckon?

I still think the sailboat is overtaking vessel in both incidents as he is is coming from behind 22.5 deg. and is travelling faster (has to be because he is travelling a longer distance)

Certainly in the first incident

In the second incident; who is over taking whom really depends on how fast the powerboat speeded up. This is why altering speed is not a good idea.

The sailboat is playing silly buggers
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Old 26-01-2011, 19:24   #75
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........LOL
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